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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 4:57 pm 
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I bought a VW based FN replica for parts because it was cheap and more interesting to me than the Locost at this point. I’m imagining a locost style frame, IRS using Miata parts that I have, and a shaft drive V4 from a Honda ST1100 (around 100hp, 85ftlb). Tires would be around 30” tall and 3 or 4 inches wide. It has 21” Ford Model A wheels on it right now but I’ve read they cannot take a lot of abuse and I don’t want to worry about spokes failing, also unsure if I can make them work with the parts I have. I think I can get some custom steel wheels made, 20x3ish” for a “reasonable” cost. I don’t know if sufficient wire wheels could be acquired for a reasonable cost.

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Just trying to plan a bit in my head but can’t decide on front suspension. They typically had a parallel leaf, beam front end which would look great but there would be a couple issues. Can I get a front end to accept Miata brakes and hubs? Can it ride properly? It’s just going to be a street car, maybe an autox or something but not really worried about racing.

I want the hubs out in front of the grill and to get the car really low like a locost. I thought about just making IFS control arms that mount behind the grill but push the wheel really far forward. Steering might be interesting though, potentially mounting the Miata rack out in front of the grill?

Other ideas?

Link to pictures in case forum has issues. https://imgur.com/a/KL2HYWG

Typical FN front end...
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Austin 7s with IFS, so it can be made to look good. But still not like a beam.
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I like the look of this one a lot but it is quite small...
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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 4:58 pm 
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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 7:40 pm 
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What! Tha! chitty bang bang, pretty shitty bang bang, we love you! I kid, I kid! This could be cool.

I had this same model kit car in high school. It had a 1300 that could barely climb a hill, was wired like a house, had a chromed plastic grill, the front fenders were poorly supported and shook all the time, and it had recap tires. Despite it being a pile the attention it received was unreal.

I’d try to make the most of what it is. Change the wheels to vw empi 9 spoke polished and vw disc kits, Cut the front horn off the frame and bring it back to fit the beam just behind the grill in the body and use a buggy rack. Fit adjusters to the beam for height and probably take out a torsion leaf or two to soften the front and set gc. Rear is adjustable. Reinstall vw swaybar and add a couple x-braces under the pan for some torsional rigidity between the horn and the rear torsion housing. Fit a Goldwing 1500 offset to the driver side to center the output, with the heads and exhaust sticking out the sides and an audi diff and a new raised tunnel to house the driveshaft. You may find axles that will adapt two different size cvs or larger stubs that will fit your swingarms. Put spare or trunk on the rear.

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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 8:38 pm 
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Picture for my words


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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 9:53 pm 
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I do like the look. Especially the front wheels being forward of the grille. Have you thought about running the exhaust upward and out the back like the prewar MGs? You definitely need to keep the tall, thin tires to keep the look though.


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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 10:43 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Picture for my words


Those are some pretty impressive MS Paint skills hah. I hadn't thought about the GL1500 due to cost, just assumed they were out of my price range. Looked a bit, and it looks like both the GL1500 and the GL1800 rotate the wrong direction.

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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 10:45 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
I do like the look. Especially the front wheels being forward of the grille. Have you thought about running the exhaust upward and out the back like the prewar MGs? You definitely need to keep the tall, thin tires to keep the look though.


Yes we can definitely do that with the exhaust. Will have the motorcycle cans out there too, probably take a bit of the silencer out to try and get it loud like the cars would have been.

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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 8:49 am 
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Suggestion number 47!
Keep the current VW spindle with the wheels, brakes and ball joints. Build/design a LSA front suspension using those parts, and the VW Ball Joint locations. I would build a shorter open channel style frame attachment on to the bug chassis, that would look like what was use in that era. Design your upper and lower control mounts that would attach to the top and bottom of the channel flanges. Spending your money :lol: find a British drive train from some MG, triumph, etc. brit type vehicle.
{If you could find a rusted out donor, you could probably use a lot of the parts.} It would probably mean a Locost type tunnel added to the chassis so you could pass the drive line thru it back to the diff.
Fun project :cheers:
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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 2:47 pm 
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davew wrote:
Suggestion number 47!
Keep the current VW spindle with the wheels, brakes and ball joints. Build/design a LSA front suspension using those parts, and the VW Ball Joint locations. I would build a shorter open channel style frame attachment on to the bug chassis, that would look like what was use in that era. Design your upper and lower control mounts that would attach to the top and bottom of the channel flanges. Spending your money :lol: find a British drive train from some MG, triumph, etc. brit type vehicle.
{If you could find a rusted out donor, you could probably use a lot of the parts.} It would probably mean a Locost type tunnel added to the chassis so you could pass the drive line thru it back to the diff.
Fun project :cheers:
Davew


What is LSA? I am unfamiliar with that term.

I thought about the British car donor but motorcycle engine has integrated transmission which will significantly reduce the size of the tunnel needed and also has similar power levels. I think the tradeoff will be some reduced authenticity and not having a full size clutch, so might need to baby the clutch a bit. If we use a Goldwing engine it does have reverse.

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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 2:59 pm 
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toylocost wrote:
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Picture for my words


Those are some pretty impressive MS Paint skills hah. I hadn't thought about the GL1500 due to cost, just assumed they were out of my price range. Looked a bit, and it looks like both the GL1500 and the GL1800 rotate the wrong direction.


Looking some more, the direction of rotation of the crank is irrelevant. It's whether the pinion is on the left or right side of the ring gear. Looking at final drive units from GL1500, GL1800, ST1100, and ST1300 I have concluded that pinion is pretty well always on the right side of the ring gear on motorcycles with the final drive on the right hand side of the bike.

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Also, the Miata pinion is on the right side of the ring gear...

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Therefore, it's likely that most shaft driven motorcycles with the driveshaft on the right side of the bike will work.

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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 6:50 pm 
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Paint skills? Aw shucks, it weren't nuthin'. :oops: You are too kind; really!

There are cw and ccw rotation diffs. The audi is supposed to be reverse rotation or ccw as viewed from the pinion side. Some domestic diffs have both cw and ccw for 4wd and rwd applications. You can't tell rotation by pinion location in the case. Sometimes the only difference is the tooth direction.

I checked my old 1980 goldwing final drive and it is cw as viewed from the pinion side.
The 1500 starter sticks out the back pretty far and the output shaft is around 5 inches off center so centering might be a bit too much for aesthetics (symmetry of the bonnet and head protrusion).

By moving the axle back, you get to keep the view down the full length hood (which I like) but you will be able to see to the left further at intersections. It should turn better and it looks better to me, but I like the old austins.

Tough to fit much of a tunnel because it is very narrow. Cheek to cheek with the passenger if you know what I mean. Should be a close friend and may need a cig after. :lol:

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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 9:08 pm 
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I think it will be incredibly cool! I have always admired the basic lines of that kit, just did not like the VW suspension stuck out there.


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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 9:52 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
There are cw and ccw rotation diffs. The audi is supposed to be reverse rotation or ccw as viewed from the pinion side. Some domestic diffs have both cw and ccw for 4wd and rwd applications. You can't tell rotation by pinion location in the case. Sometimes the only difference is the tooth direction.

This is messing with my brain. Are you saying that changing the teeth can change the direction the ring gear rotates? Or that the differentials are identical other than teeth, where one is meant for the front of the car?

Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I checked my old 1980 goldwing final drive and it is cw as viewed from the pinion side.
The 1500 starter sticks out the back pretty far and the output shaft is around 5 inches off center so centering might be a bit too much for aesthetics (symmetry of the bonnet and head protrusion).

By moving the axle back, you get to keep the view down the full length hood (which I like) but you will be able to see to the left further at intersections. It should turn better and it looks better to me, but I like the old austins.

Tough to fit much of a tunnel because it is very narrow. Cheek to cheek with the passenger if you know what I mean. Should be a close friend and may need a cig after. :lol:

Found some pics on ebay, looks about 4" off center, I think that will work? Miata pinion is about 1.5" off center so it's 2.5" difference. I don't really care about the passenger footwell, engine will be just far enough forward that the alternator is out of the way of pedals which would make the driveshaft somewhere around 5' long, and the angle about 2.4 degrees.

Hah yes, not quite as intimate as a motorcycle, a bit heavier, and a small bit safer.

Here are a few pictures of the GL1500 parts for illustration, not sure if that's a factory alternator...
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PostPosted: February 5, 2020, 2:07 am 
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This has gone off topic a bit but oh well.

ST1100 looks a little more forgiving with the diff ratios available for the Miata rear end, but a 40ftlb jump in torque for the GL is hard to deny.

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PostPosted: February 5, 2020, 6:35 pm 
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I should not have put it that way. The best answer is usually "it depends".

There are carriers used for cw and ccw that look the same on the outside. The difference is one for a high pinion catches oil off the ring to drain through the pinion bearings.

You can take any diff and flip it around the horizontal axis for high pinion or rotate it around the vertical axis to keep a low pinion and flooded bearings. Low reduces the capacity of the gears.

The solution is to use "reverse cut" gear sets so it will be as strong as normal rotation.

I could take an 8.8 irs diff, keep the pinion low, swap to reverse cut gears, and drive it ccw at the rear or cw at the front.

Slappynuts recently posted about audi diffs being ccw and you can tell based on the offset in the pinion. Audi's are his thing. I know very little about them.

A fellow down unda makes reverse cut gear sets for vw transaxles in order to work with subaru swaps and stay rear engined instead of a middy with the subbie transaxle.

I have a 1500 goldwing hybrid that I did a quick finger measure to come up with around 5 inches but I can provide you with accurate dims. Just let me know. Those pics you have are of a valkyrie since it has six carbs. Yes, that is the stock alternator. Another benefit since it has more capacity than the 1100 oil cooled alt.

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