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PostPosted: January 4, 2008, 9:10 pm 
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Location: Claremont,Ontario,Canada
I've been pondering the routing of my brake and fuel lines. I know that for drag racing putting brake or fuel lines in the tunnel is not acceptable and if your going to break u-joints or driveshafts it would be pretty dangerous. Has anyone run a dedicated .125 wall tube in the tunnel for brake or fuel lines? I was originally going to put them in my 2x2x.065 outer frame rails and prepped all the joints that way, but after I thought about all the rivets poking in ,thats probably no good either. I need room for two an8 stainless flex hoses(feed and return to regulator) and one brake line(solid or flexible).
Any Ideas???


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PostPosted: January 4, 2008, 10:12 pm 
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You could run steel hard lines through the tunnel. I would expect them to be much tougher than the braided flex lines. They are also more compact, and tucked down into a corner should be pretty safe.

Do you have seperate driveshaft hoop or is the hoop integrated into the tunnel?

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PostPosted: January 5, 2008, 1:40 am 
You'll want solid lines for the brakes wherever possible. I'd recommend pricing out all that stainless fuel line as well - that stuff is not cheap.

Westfield runs hard lines through the transmission tunnel. I expect the risk of broken driveshafts or U-joints is much lower in a light, relatively low powered car than in a drag car, but having the extra tube for armor makes sense.


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PostPosted: January 5, 2008, 8:35 am 
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Besides safety hoops at both ends of the driveshaft, how about a 1/8" steel S-channel that bolts to the inside of the tunnel after the brake or fuel line has been clamped? The open side of the S faces the direction of driveshaft rotation so if the shaft hits it, it will bend around the line. It could be difficult to support a long hard line in a steel tube to prevent it from vibrating and work hardening.

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PostPosted: January 5, 2008, 10:55 am 
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My plan is to place a rolled aluminum cover over the tunnel, and locate the hardlines there. I have to finalize the master cylinder location, then assure there is enough slope to the rear end to bleed brakes. You might want to review the NHRA rules: As I recall, only three feet of flex fuel line is allowed!

I'm building for the GRM $2008 challange: It sounds like you'll have more invested in fuel line than I'll have in seven!

Lenny


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PostPosted: January 5, 2008, 11:48 am 
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Thanks for the Input
I haven't yet installed my driveshaft safety loops but they will probably be removable.
One Idea I've thought of was running the lines along the inner face of the outer frame rails and making up some small round tube sections to pierce the frame rails . The floor could be "raised" at the outside edge to give enough room for the lines and to clamp them . I would need to make some flanges at the crossing tubes there to attach the floor to and to allow it to be installed from underneath. See attached diagram. I'm not good enough with the cad to show the lines gently curving through the hole but the diagram should give some idea.
Mind you alot of extra work to do.
I thought the rules only allowed small amounts of rubber hose for transitions but that braided steel was OK. I'll have to recheck it though
Phil


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PostPosted: January 5, 2008, 12:19 pm 
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pmatolcsy wrote:
Thanks for the Input
I haven't yet installed my driveshaft safety loops but they will probably be removable.
One Idea I've thought of was running the lines along the inner face of the outer frame rails and making up some small round tube sections to pierce the frame rails . ...
Mind you alot of extra work to do.
Phil


Hey, Phil. If you're looking to race/autocross at all, check the rules for plumbing in the cockpit. I don't remember the details, but it's either verboten or restricted in some way. I also think the likelihood of someone else's bumper infringing on your outboard plumbing would be much greater than your own driveshaft taking a bite out of your inboard plumbing.

I'd be a bit uneasy boring holes in the frame for plumbing, when the frames are as easy to miss as ours. This would also make maintenance on the plumbing a nightmare...might need to cut it out and start over?

I don't see a big problem with running this down the tunnel. As others have said, I don't think we see a lot of broken driveshafts in the Locost world, with our low power, low weight, and low grip...compared to dragsters. Putting some shield over the lines within the tunnel doesn't seem like a bad idea. I'll be eager to see what others do in that regard, and may emulate.

I think driveshaft hoops may be the simplest solution, with multi-purpose benefits.

One thought would be to route it actually within the tranny tunnel tubing. This would probably be an awful idea, due to lack of bracing, rubbing, maintenance, inspection, and other problems...but boy, howdy would it be slick!

Food for thought,
-dave

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PostPosted: January 5, 2008, 12:46 pm 
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mcteardrops wrote:
My plan is to place a rolled Aluminium cover over the tunnel, and locate the hardlines there. I have to finalize the master cylinder location, then assure there is enough slope to the rear end to bleed brakes. You might want to review the NHRA rules: As I recall, only three feet of flex fuel line is allowed!

I'm building for the GRM $2008 challange: It sounds like you'll have more invested in fuel line than I'll have in seven!

Lenny


No need to slope. Just make sure there are no points along the line that are higher than the master cylinder resevoir.


Pmatolcsy, I think Scotty had transparent aluminum. How else ya gonna see a whale in a bird of prey?

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PostPosted: January 5, 2008, 3:42 pm 
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I think the way I drew it the lines are technically under the car since the floor would be installed first ,then the lines. If the lines are in the tunnel and any of it is removable with a poor seal which isn't fireproof, technically they are "in" the car as well. An AN8 plumbing kit from summit is $120 ,AN 6 IS $90, and it comes with 20 feet of stainless flex hose and most of the fittings I'll need to connect my fuelcell ,prefilter,pump,postfilter,regulator and roll over vent and valve.
Besides it looks trick and I'd love to own one thing or anything that has braided steel line and anodised red and blue AN fittings on it.
If I moved the lines to the floor just outside the tranny tunnel and routed them as per the diagram .Do you think that would be better? I could use bulkhead fittings to go through the members , and then it could be removable , serviceable etc. I'm planning on beating my car fairly hard and with a ls1, t-56 and 8.8 rear the chances of breaking driveshafts If I hookup is there. Heres the NHRA rules. Anyone know where any other "rules " are?

2001 Rulebook - General Regulations

LINES - "All non-OEM fuel lines (including gauge and/or data recorder lines) must be metallic, steel braded or NHRA accecpted "woven or woven-pushlok." A maximum of 12 inches total (front to rear)
of non-metallic or non steel braded hose is permitted for connection purposes only; individual injector nozzle and motorcycle fuel lines ane excluded. Fuel lines (except steel braded lines) in the flywheel/bellhousing area must be enclosed in a 16 inch length of steel tubing. 1/8 in minimum wall thickness, securely mounted as a protection against fuel line rupture. Fuel lines may not be routed in the driveshaft tunnel. It is mandatory that fuel lines passing supercharger drive belts be steel braded, NHRA accecpted woven or woven pushlok or be enclosed in protective steel tubing. NHRA woven or woven pushlok lines:
Aeroquip FC300, FC332, Aeroquip Star Lite 200, AQP, Earls Prolite, Gates LOL plus, Goodridge 710, Russell Twist-Lok 836 and XRP HS-79. Contact NHRA for updates."


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