LocostUSA.com

New LS v8s. Basically corvettes since late 90s. The new vettes EPA rate at like 26.and that's with 3.08 gears I believe. So figue half the weight and taller gears in trans and rear. Drive like grandpa and easiley get some great mileage. Of course I don't drive like gramps.

And I've thought of a motor at each wheel but didn't know they actually made them for that purpose. Figure just one on each rear wheel(just rwd) and elimantes drive line loss and saves lots of room. Not bad idea

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

The first place I had heard of hub motors being postulated was in game published in 1980 called "Car Wars" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Wars). Someone introduced me to it after I started playing a computer game called "Interstate '76" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_%2776). I-76 was a whole lot of fun for a PC game, lol.

I have to wonder if some of the engineers behind these motors were fans of the original game?

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.. in the world

I would think one of the harder points with individual wheel motors is when going straight, making the wheels turn at the exact same speed, one motor could take a slightly higher draw than the other to go the same speed. Also allowing the motors to drive at different speeds for cornering. You would have to emulate the abilities of a diff, through software.

(dc motors mind you) since voltage determines rpm, when wheel speed varies the slipping or inside wheel will "drift" at the assigned rpm while the wheel with traction (outside) draws the amperage needed to match the rpm request. interestingly, if the speed differential gets high enough the higher speed wheel can generate/feed power into the slower wheel if wired with that intention. you end up controlling the slower wheel to determined road speed. ..

my employer uses an all mechanical bleed off system (talk about KISS!) for hydraulic hub motors to maintain matching wheel speeds controlled by a skid at the front of the buggie on a product we designed/make. the control method/needs are a bit different but the control concept is the same and it works great in hydraulics (the thing does stuff as well but thats "the rest of the story")
gotta luv my boss, he sat down and spent an hour easy with me during the design process so i understood all the controls (we digressed into a lot of hydraulic theory and components, control circuits, etc) even though i wasn't working on that part of the project. i figure it'll most likely be me fixing one if they ever break but after 2 seasons they haven't broken one yet.

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"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett

i did a bit of looking at the prius and, m1 is a small motor/starter and m2 is 44 hp at design voltage. the ice is dbw providing power to a cvt with the cvt output feeding the drivetrain. the ice becomes the "booster" for m2, the throttle is primary control for m2 and the ecu controls the ice. m2 is a 273vac motor so an inverter is needed(i saw the pair on ebay last weekend for @$200 each piece).
"what if" you use a motor with output shaft on both ends and no transmission? drive each prop shaft and put the honda crv rear diff in the front and a typical diff in back.
if you build with a goal of 2-3 km flat out you could get a drag racer that couldn't be beat IF you got the tires to hook up but you would be towing it home every weekend.
longer drives? i dunno, it seems to be a weight/size/money tradeoff from where i sit and what i hear from every one..
"what if" use an lpg(hydrogen/cng/etc)/electric onboard generator with the control commands: Sr>xxmph then genny on until Vb is at xx% unless road speed falls below xxmph for xx time and Vb is above xx% (plus) if Vb falls below 25% then genny on until Vb is at xx%. default off if key off for safety.

edit>> i saw for sale the other day a 3500 watt cng fuel cell genny. .. epa approved 30% efficient for residential use. the idea was it provides power to the grid when your use is less (ie not at home) to lower your bill and reduce the demand on long distance transmission grids. has tax credits available for homeowners too.

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"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett

I had same thought about turning and wheel speeds. I figured software and program it with an almost limited slip mentality. If that's possible.

Also with hub motors would unsprung weight be really high. Maybe if you didn't need brakes it would even out but I haven't picked up any light electric motors so I would think not. Guess it depends on motor and how big the brakes were to begin with

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T40ZqLZiZyg

There's another one that shows how simplified the suspension is, can't seem to find it at the moment. Look for videos posted by tsport100...

What if you did a hybrid of the two, mount the electric motors inboard, have half shafts that run out to the wheels. This way you still have two separate motors but cut out a large amount of unsprung weight. Downside is that you are back to either normal brakes, or you have the same problems that come with inboard brakes.

That occured to me to with the half shaftss but I was hoping someone had some weight numbers to compare with. Figure brakes in rear are easily 20lbs but I bet the electric motor would b lots more.
And I like normal brakes. I know the electric has lots of 'engine' braking but just that alone seems risky. What if something fails and the throttle sticks or motor controller doesn't back of the power. Then u have forward push and NO brakes whatsoever

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

Diff rubbish is exactly that. There is no need for any consideration about different wheel speeds and I know because I've been involved with it. The wheel motors just don't care if one goes a bit faster/slower than the other around a corner.

Every electric car I have ever driven (lots) have NO braking effect at all. Lift your foot and they freewheel unless you pump electricity into them reversing the field.

I've heard things about EV about adjusting the regen braking so perhaps it is a matter of programming and telling the motor to do it or not. So regen braking isn't a natural phenom like engine braking. Makes sense as much as any pf the electronics stuff does to me, which isn't a lot.

So you all seem quite knowledgeable so let's move on to motor rating and requirements. Like if a dc motor is rated at 48volts u need 4 12voltb batteries but how much amps or watts or does on matter and not other? And if u run only 24volts will it just not put out all the rated hp but still go right? And what's the difference in ratings in AC and DC? Still need to look at the same numbers or does some of them matter more for AC than for DC?

Thanks for everything so far guys. U guys kick A$$!

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

http://www.go-ev.com/end-users/005_008_SU_NGT_FAQ.pdf

No. 12 and 29 confirms what a few have said and blows my idea out of the water

12. Can I put an alternator or generator or windmill or solar panels on my vehicle to keep the
battery charged?
In brief: "NO"! We receive this question on almost a daily basis! If you figure out a method of
actually getting more energy out of something than you put into it – please let us know immediately! Though windmills and solar cells may certainly be used to help charge batteries, most of the motors we sell are for use in vehicles
that can draw between 340,000 watts (for a short time), and 15,000+ watts at highway speeds.

29. I want to use a small generator to run the electric motor while I am driving on the highway.
Even in a lightweight vehicle you will require
around 150 amps at 144 volts to maintain 60 MPH – that's more than a 20Kw generator!

i beleive this website was linked in this topic once already i just finally got around to looking. so i guess i suck again. maybe someday when i care less about speed and have more budget to blow but 50-100 mile range and just cruising around wont cut it nowadays.
so anyone have a nice small block chevy or turbo rotary engine lying around for my next 7?

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

Using hub motors, your suspension would be set up like the front of a rear drive car at all four corners, completely independent... Sorry I got that in a couple posts late, but better late than never, I suppose!

[quote=]I have to wonder if some of the engineers behind these motors were fans of the original game?[/quote]

Hub motors have been around for a while.......since 1899.

"Ferdinand Porsche may well have invented the 4 wheel drive. -And, yes you guessed correctly, the first 4x4 or 4 wheel drive was a Hybrid Vehicle."

Now that is just plain cool! Any idea of the specs on the power supply?