LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently March 28, 2024, 7:59 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 2:42 pm 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Posts: 7652
Location: Massachusetts
How about a width on the 302 across the top of the heads under the valve cover. Sort of outside corener to outside corner, if that makes sense.

They have an 8.2" deck height. So if you could also get the distance crankshaft centerline to bottom of block, then I could do a compare to the SketchUp model of the LS that I made.

Thanks, I'll post a picture of the two overlaid...

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 20, 2011, 10:09 pm
Posts: 190
Cannot get an accurate on the crankshaft as it is still in the truck, but the top of my heads under the valve covers comes to ~45cm.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 23, 2010, 2:40 am
Posts: 1450
Quote:
I wish we had a nice little pushrod V8 that would do 8000 Rpm or so. 3 liters or less.
There's the Hartley H1 V8, not push-rod or low-cost, but has a smallish footprint, weighs 200 lbs. and revs to 10,000 rpm. :twisted:
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
audio clip @ http://www.h1v8.com/f/h1.mpg Nice!

_________________
Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 3:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 20, 2011, 10:09 pm
Posts: 190
horizenjob wrote:
Quote:
Formula cars seem to do ok with upwards of a 1000hp pushing only 500 to 600 kgs.


They work quite well for the 50 or so people in the world that are good enough to deal with it....

I wish we had a nice little pushrod V8 that would do 8000 Rpm or so. 3 liters or less.


Why not spec one out?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 4:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 16, 2010, 5:03 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Whitby, Ontario
seattletom wrote:
audio clip @ http://www.h1v8.com/f/h1.mpg Nice!

Now THAT'S more like it :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 5:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 2, 2010, 1:13 am
Posts: 431
Location: Phoenix arizona
http://youtu.be/AACd9YZlh5E this is my favorite clip...shame about the gansta music.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 6:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
Posts: 3268
Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
littlesammy78 wrote:
I am also a fan of the lower RPM V8 sound (not too lopey though!). Nothing like cruising down the highway at 80mph and 3000-3500!
Why would you string it out almost like a 4cyl on the highway? With the torque they put out, highway cruising rpm on a V8 should easily be ~2000rpm, or even a little less. :mrgreen:

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie


Last edited by Driven5 on December 17, 2011, 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 16, 2011, 7:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 6, 2008, 11:15 am
Posts: 1047
Location: Cave Creek, AZ
What Justin said. Get a 302 out of a truck so it has the torque cam and a T-5 with tall gears or a 3.73 or lower rear end. If the T-5 comes out of a 4 banger car first gear will be too low.

Tom

_________________
Sometimes, I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.

My short term memory is absolutely horrible and so is my short term memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG16m2e4O6I


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 17, 2011, 5:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 12, 2008, 6:29 am
Posts: 3567
horizenjob wrote:
They work quite well for the 50 or so people in the world that are good enough to deal with it....


I am talking simple physics here not driving ability and anyway there's more than 50 people in the world who can accelerate a car in a straight line..

KB58, there was hundreds of lightweight V8 race cars before wings came along which don't start to work until around 50mph anyway.

Downix wrote:
To add to JD's post, if you want measurements on the 302 let me know, as I have one handy. Solid motor and tons of parts for it.


And a bit lighter than a Chev V8 too.

wayne-o wrote:
http://youtu.be/AACd9YZlh5E this is my favorite clip...shame about the gansta music.


Sounds good but pretty slow for a 2.5 in a nothing shell.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 17, 2011, 7:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
Posts: 3268
Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
I still don't understand why people all across the internet insist on continuing to bring up F1 in discussions about street cars, and even production (and production component) based race cars, seemingly just because they have 4 wheels and an internal combustion engine yet are otherwise completely irrelevant to the subject at hand...In the case of power vs weight vs traction, Formula 1 cars utilize highly advanced electronic control systems that allow them to put all of their power down in the most effective manner possible despite their low weight. One of the comments made by Jeff Gordon when piloting Montoya's F1 car to just 1.3 seconds off Montoya's own times at Indy in only his second session ever out in one of the cars, was how impressed he was with the ability of the technology to allow him to get on the gas without having to worry about traction the way he does in his his NASCAR. Don't forget also that physics dictates the issue of power vs weight vs traction is not just a concern in only straight lines.

Regarding the effects of differential ratios for even a relatively stock Ford 302 + T5 combo powered Locost, or other large torquey engine, assuming a modern street tire size at ~25" tall, I would guess that 3.08 or 3.27 (2300-2500rpm @ 80mph) would be pretty well suited...Taller still would likely even be a possibility considering how much (little) weight the torque is fighting against. This would also probably make the car more tractable in the lower gears as well, with the somewhat reduced torque multiplication.

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie


Last edited by Driven5 on December 18, 2011, 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 17, 2011, 11:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 12, 2008, 6:29 am
Posts: 3567
Driven5 wrote:
internet insist on continuing to bring up F1 in discussions about .


Who mentioned F1 except you?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 18, 2011, 2:31 am 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 6410
Location: SoCal
cheapracer wrote:
Who mentioned F1 except you?


Um... you?
cheapracer wrote:
... Formula cars seem to do ok with upwards of a 1000hp pushing only 500 to 600 kgs.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 18, 2011, 4:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
Posts: 3268
Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
cheapracer wrote:
...there was hundreds of lightweight V8 race cars before wings came along which don't start to work until around 50mph anyway.
Many of which were also balled up into little piles of scrap metal along the way by even some of the best drivers in the world, such that sanctioning bodies have been attempting to limit the increases in power and performance, in addition to improving the crash survivability, ever since...


cheapracer wrote:
Who mentioned F1 except you?
My apologies for inferring that a Formula car puushing "upwards of 1000hp" would mean F1 specifically...But exactly which other extreme horsepower Formula racing series were you referencing that is any more applicable to this discussion, by not using any type of automated controls to enhance the tractive performance of such a lightweight chassis?

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 18, 2011, 10:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 12, 2008, 6:29 am
Posts: 3567
KB58 wrote:

Um... you?



umm no I didn't, actually I was thinking of a large variety of race cars from Can Ams, Sports Sedans through to Indycars throughout racing history - my head isn't stuck up F1's ass as the end to end all of motor racing besides it's rarely been the most powerful series.


Driven5 wrote:
Many of which were also balled up into little piles of scrap metal along the way


No, most didn't crash actually.

Driven5 wrote:
by not using any type of automated controls to enhance the tractive performance of such a lightweight chassis?


How long do you think those controls have been around and specific to F1 as most race series don't allow them?

Anyway, don't know how we got here, a V8 in a Locost is a suitable solution, a number of them out there prove it including members of this forum along with a handful of well known and respected manufacturers - Elfin V8, Caterham V8, Westfield V8, Donkervoort V8, Dax V8, Gillete V8, Stalker V8 (as well as their supercharged V6), others of course and that's just the Locost style without mentioning other lightweight V8 styles and they all seem to be all doing just fine with the concept.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: December 18, 2011, 1:49 pm 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Posts: 7652
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Anyway, don't know how we got here, a V8 in a Locost is a suitable solution, a number of them out there prove it including members of this forum


SeattleTom posted a diagram of a Chevy crate engine with dimensions the other day. Does anyone have dimensioned drawings for a Ford 302? What I have so far is 17.5" width at the outer top of heads, 21" height and 27" ? length. Both this and the Chevy have a lot of room consumed by accessories on the front I think.

I did spend a lot of time looking and reading. If someone could take a few pictures with a ruler that would be a great step. I want to make a version of my frame that would fit these engines. Since much of my project uses roll cage spec tubing and it's designed to be stiff it should be plenty strong enough for V8 based cars.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
POWERED_BY