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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 7:30 am 
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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 8:32 am 
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Chuck, I've considered a locost based build for a daily, and it always ends up leaning towards a Miata-Voort (or Doonk-ata?). With 100+ heat in the summer, -30 or colder temps in the winter, typical summer rains that many parts of the world would consider serious storms, along with everything in between, real heating, AC, full ventilation (defogging), a real (possibly removable?) hard top, a fully enclosed passenger area, and amazing lights (lots of wildlife - deer, bear, even moose if you head north a bit) are all pretty much essential in our neck of the woods for a daily.

I think a Miata could supply most of the greasy bits, the climate controls and related plumbing, and probably even the glass for a build. But then how much of a real advantage would it have over building up & tuning a Miata? I do think there is room to build a pretty cool car, but I think for real day-to-day use, it would be very easy to underestimate all the little details that need to be covered for a car to function as a serious daily driver. I guess I think "building something" would be relatively easy, but "getting it right" would raise the bar by quite a bit.

I do think it would be a fun challenge, though.

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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 9:35 am 
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erioshi wrote:
*Snip* With 100+ heat in the summer, -30 or colder temps in the winter, typical summer rains that many parts of the world would consider serious storms, along with everything in between, real heating, AC, full ventilation (defogging), a real (possibly removable?) hard top, a fully enclosed passenger area, and amazing lights (lots of wildlife - deer, bear, even moose if you head north a bit) *Snip*


:shock: DUDE!!! Build a TANK! On second thought, forget building a car, you need to MOVE!
Go somewhere not so in-hospitable to human life! :mrgreen:
*
*
*
* (Long silence...)
*
*
Just kiddin... Couldn't help myself... Sorry... :oops:

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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 9:45 am 
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GonzoRacer wrote:
... :shock: DUDE!!! Build a TANK! ...

m'eh - I bought and modded out an Evo instead. The difference is probably smaller than you think.

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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 2:45 pm 
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Keeping in mind that a rear seat does not necessarily mean a comfortable for adult seat, I dug out this seating arrangement, by Lotus no less. I feel this would suffice.


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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 5:12 pm 
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I didn't really like the look of the Evora at first, but did think it was an improvement over the current Elise/Exige look. The more time I've spent looking at it, the more it seems to grow on me.

Unfortunately, if we wanted to build something like that, we run square into the greenhouse problem. Where do we get the glass, and how do we ensure a steady supply at reasonable costs? I still maintain that to build a fully enclosed homebuilt, the design would essentially need to start with the glass and work backwards from there.

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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 5:16 pm 
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erioshi wrote:
Chuck, I've considered a locost based build for a daily, and it always ends up leaning towards a Miata-Voort (or Doonk-ata?). With 100+ heat in the summer, -30 or colder temps in the winter, typical summer rains that many parts of the world would consider serious storms, along with everything in between, real heating, AC, full ventilation (defogging), a real (possibly removable?) hard top, a fully enclosed passenger area, and amazing lights (lots of wildlife - deer, bear, even moose if you head north a bit) are all pretty much essential in our neck of the woods for a daily.

I think a Miata could supply most of the greasy bits, the climate controls and related plumbing, and probably even the glass for a build. But then how much of a real advantage would it have over building up & tuning a Miata? I do think there is room to build a pretty cool car, but I think for real day-to-day use, it would be very easy to underestimate all the little details that need to be covered for a car to function as a serious daily driver. I guess I think "building something" would be relatively easy, but "getting it right" would raise the bar by quite a bit.

I do think it would be a fun challenge, though.



Well except for the rain part, although the rain we do have seems to qualify for your type of rain, it sounds like the more temperate parts of Texas.

EDIT: WAIT! I read that wrong. I read it as about 30 degree temps in the winter not MINUS 30! "yikes"

MINUS 30? I sure hope that's Fahrenheit and not Celcius.

You don't need a tank, you need a portable sauna for the winter.

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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 5:30 pm 
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Well, I was not suggesting copying the Evora, only using it for sitting reference. I much prefer the Lotus 7's look, personally, and would aim to retain that as much as possible. Plus, it is a lot less expensive to fabricate. As for glass, using the Lotus 7 GT and some of the hardtop options for the Lotus 7 as reference should serve to minimize the custom glass demands.


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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 8:10 pm 
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Try a lowered 2dr Tin Top Sidekick. Full frame type construction means body can be dropped on whatever frame you want. To me daily driver means AWD (I live a climate similar to the above poster who got the hard time...lol), so I bought one albeit LWB, and have long term plans for it.


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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 8:36 pm 
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iadr wrote:
Try a lowered 2dr Tin Top Sidekick. Full frame type construction means body can be dropped on whatever frame you want. To me daily driver means AWD (I live a climate similar to the above poster who got the hard time...lol), so I bought one albeit LWB, and have long term plans for it.


AND you can get for a little over $500 the adapter pieces needed to install a VW diesel (using the stock Zuke manual transmission) and run the thing on waste oil!

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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 9:08 pm 
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Ok, did a quick cut of the Elise sitting against the McSorley 442 chassis. Now to adapt around this, but it looks doable.


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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 10:44 pm 
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Downix wrote:
Ok, did a quick cut of the Elise sitting against the McSorley 442 chassis. Now to adapt around this, but it looks doable.

Ok, I got to ask the question: How does Daily Driver = 4 seats?

I think Daily Driver and think reliability, reliability, reliability. Oh, and some creature comforts (heat, hardware that keeps rain out, radio for listening to traffic reports) might be nice. In MD, a defroster / defogger, wipers, and windshield are all required. A 2nd seat for a passenger would be nice (I usually do my 30 minute commute solo, but having room for 1 more would be nice). If I need more space, I'll take a different vehicle.

And this isn't the kind of thing that is likely to make a good snow vehicle (I could be wrong, but seems unlikely). And besides, if I'm going to wad something up in the snow, I'd rather it be something that offers some more protection, both physical and monetary. Wreck a Locost and I doubt you'd come out finacially ahead with your insurance company.

Just my thoughts....

JustDreamin


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PostPosted: January 17, 2012, 11:03 pm 
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Good point. Ok, rather than rethinking the wheel, sticking to my original idea of adapting the GT.


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PostPosted: January 18, 2012, 6:06 am 
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JustDreamin wrote:
... And this isn't the kind of thing that is likely to make a good snow vehicle (I could be wrong, but seems unlikely). ...

I think the idea of snow is more terrifying for most people than the reality. There have been literally millions of RWD cars, trucks and vans that have been driven, and quite a few are still being driven, in snowy climates without instant catastrophic calamity being induced by average suburbanite drivers. The idea is scary, but if you live in a snowy climate, can afford a good set of tires, and have at least a tiny bit of common sense, then snow is just another less than ideal part of daily driving. It can also be quite a bit of fun in an empty industrial parking lot at 3 AM after a nice fresh snowfall. Ice is a similar issue, although it does usually require more respect and more attention.

A daily, at least in my world, would need to be able to contend with both of these situations. Driving a locost based car on snow and ice would require a competent driver and some common sense (and of course real snow tires), but I don't think it would inherently be any more of a death trap than the car is already. And probably not much worse than wintering with a Miata given the comparable passenger heights and relative lack of protection.

The tires would be key though. We'd need to put the summer steam-rollers into storage and put on something appropriately narrow for the car's weight with the right compound and tread pattern. Probably some form of Blizzak or winter Conti. Honestly that's probably less of an issue for someone used to snow than it sounds. Many of us have both summer and winter rims & tires for our daily drivers. Even some of the summer only cars will have a set of winter rims & tires .. just in case.

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PostPosted: January 18, 2012, 9:10 am 
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erioshi wrote:
JustDreamin wrote:
... And this isn't the kind of thing that is likely to make a good snow vehicle (I could be wrong, but seems unlikely). ...

I think the idea of snow is more terrifying for most people than the reality. There have been literally millions of RWD cars, trucks and vans that have been driven, and quite a few are still being driven, in snowy climates without instant catastrophic calamity being induced by average suburbanite drivers. The idea is scary, but if you live in a snowy climate, can afford a good set of tires, and have at least a tiny bit of common sense, then snow is just another less than ideal part of daily driving. It can also be quite a bit of fun in an empty industrial parking lot at 3 AM after a nice fresh snowfall. Ice is a similar issue, although it does usually require more respect and more attention.

A daily, at least in my world, would need to be able to contend with both of these situations. Driving a locost based car on snow and ice would require a competent driver and some common sense (and of course real snow tires), but I don't think it would inherently be any more of a death trap than the car is already. And probably not much worse than wintering with a Miata given the comparable passenger heights and relative lack of protection.

The tires would be key though. We'd need to put the summer steam-rollers into storage and put on something appropriately narrow for the car's weight with the right compound and tread pattern. Probably some form of Blizzak or winter Conti. Honestly that's probably less of an issue for someone used to snow than it sounds. Many of us have both summer and winter rims & tires for our daily drivers. Even some of the summer only cars will have a set of winter rims & tires .. just in case.

I wasn't suggesting it wasn't possible. Just with the high power to weight ratio it will be much more "challenging". Certainly would be fun in an empty parking lot, assuming you can get enough traction to get moving. Low ground clearance is probably the biggest issue (3" of ground clearance vs 5" of snow would mean a bit of plowing).

And just for reference, I'm in Maryland, and it does snow here on occasion (hasn't yet this year, the wife is kinda bummed, but we usually get snow in february). For instance Feb 2010, we got 15+ inches of snow twice in 4 days (snowfall totals were in the 3' to 4' range for most parts near me). That's enough to park most anything. But a more typical event is in the 4 to 6 inch range, and usually our snow is wet and heavy (we don't seem to get light powdery stuff very often). And my daily drivers for the last 15 years have been RWD V8 powered cars. Currently, it's an Olds Bravada with a 6.0L LQ4 swapped in (but it doesn't have a front diff in it, and hasn't for the last 4 years, just hasn't been high priority). And it does ok in some snow, but it still is challenging. And there's a point at which I say "bag it" because I know my insurance won't adequately compensate me if I wad it up, and the risks outweigh the rewards of going to work.

JustDreamin


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