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PostPosted: April 16, 2016, 9:07 pm 
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Location: Cave Creek, AZ
Not to sound rude or condescending, but how old are you? Do all gas stations sell propane tanks? No.

Tom

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PostPosted: April 16, 2016, 9:59 pm 
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Posthumane wrote:
I think avgas is 6lb/gal


:oops: Oops. Watching TV, talking with my wife and posting all at the same time obviously doesn't work for me because a typo turned into a calculation that was wrong. :oops: Thanks for catching the error.

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PostPosted: April 16, 2016, 10:07 pm 
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Location: Frankfort, KY(for now)
Its cool, but I'm 20, turning 21 July 19 of this year.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Backkkk!!!
PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 7:54 am 
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Location: Emerald, Melbourne, Australia.
jazz2561 wrote:
Also, does anyone know the width of a locost in the survival cell and across the front and rear end?


This combination is the funniest part of the whole thread :)

Cheers - Gavin


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PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 11:16 am 
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Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
jazz2561 wrote:
I know this sounds like a stupid question but I need a serious answer. Do all gas stations sell propane tanks?


Not necessarily, but many in urban/suburban areas do. Blue Rhino is the biggest supplied that I know of. Why don't you see if they have a dealer locator service on their website? That might give you an idea of how wide spread things are. A lot of gas stations have the ability to transfer propane from a big, fixed tank to RVs and that's fairly common along the major roads in the USA. The fittings to do so are standardized.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 11:51 am 
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Location: Frankfort, KY(for now)
Propane it is then!


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PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 12:49 pm 
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Do you not have propane powered vehicles in your neck of the woods? And refueling stations for them?

Here there were tons of propane converted taxis until the Prius came along (in my view they make the world's worst taxi from a comfort and loading perspective) and there were lots of propane converted vans and trucks until the Sprinter became available with its fuel efficienct diesel engine. There are still quite a few propane powered vehicles around though.

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PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 1:08 pm 
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Location: Massachusetts
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Propane it is then!


I think running on propane will prove to be difficult. Having propane and using it along with diesel or waste engine oil is more reasonable. You can use propane to heat your combustion chamber during startup and then use it to atomize and blow your oil into the combustion chamber when you need to produce power.

That used to be the story anyway, maybe now you can find parts used to convert cars to propane power. That would also give you something like a throttle. What you need is be able to draw liquid propane from the tank, not propane gas like a grill uses. This means you can't use a BBQ grill propane tank because they have internal safeties to prevent pulling the liquid out, they won't run upside down for instance.

Maybe you could read up on the type of burners they use in hot air balloons, you can see the copper coils wrapped around the burner they use to evaporate the fuel.

A blue flame propane burner is not efficient for you because the flame does not radiate much heat. Much of the heat going into a steam boiler comes from radiant heat not conduction from hot air.

EDIT: agree with BHR above...

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PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 3:58 pm 
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Location: Frankfort, KY(for now)
My main two concerns is btu and emissions. I have considered using gasoline, diesel, and kerosene, but, the byproducts of these fuel can be hazardous without a catalytic converter or some form of filter, while propane only generates co2 and water vapor; both of which can be contained or filtered. I was researching the btus per gallon of gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and propane. Propane had the lowest amount of btu per gallon at 91,330, gasoline at 124,000, diesel at 139,000, fuel oil is various but at a minimum of 130,000, heating oil at 139,000 and kerosene at 135,000. While it would prove difficult, propane would be good because of its energy content. As long as I keep the flame at a certain height and use a efficient heat exchanger, heating area, flame control (quartz; Doble type), heat sink and insulation, I don't see too many other problems besides fuel availability. Since I decided to use a triple expansion engine with condenser, 200-350 psi at 400-500 degrees F would really only be needed. When the spent steam comes out of the low pressure cylinder and into the condenser, it instantaneously turns back to water to be pumped back into the water tank. As far as propane vehicles in Huntsville, Alabama; out of my twenty years on this earth, I have not seen any on the road, besides forklifts.


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PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 6:42 pm 
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Location: Frankfort, KY(for now)
Know what, screw all that, is there a way to burn waste vegetable oil with filtering only? Ive been on Google all day it found some confusing answers.


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PostPosted: April 17, 2016, 8:56 pm 
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Good lord man, this thread's bouncing all over the place. I strongly suggest stopping with the planning and fully researching the path forward, which will take about a year, seriously. As it is, the whole thing almost comes across as a big practical joke to see how many people can be strung along. Regarding the zero emissions thing, the only way to achieve that is to not build it.

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Last edited by KB58 on April 18, 2016, 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: April 18, 2016, 12:02 am 
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Location: Montreal, Canada
horizenjob wrote:
Steam engines are external combustion instead of internal combustion. Since they don't burn fuel under pressure they don't burn any of the nitrogen in the air. I'm not sure of the effect on other things in the fuel like sulfur.

Natural gas is a relatively clean fuel but it does contain carbon and produce CO2, less than gasoline though. Our Republican Congress thinks that's zero emissions, but no one else really.

Hydrogen is zero emissions because you get water when you burn it. Where do you get the hydrogen though? There could well be a big smoke stack at the hydrogen factory.


Hi Marcus
Zero emission should be left to those
who do worry about volcano eruptions
forest fires, leaking oil tankers etc.
And of course us the Locost building fans.
Here my ideas of spring-loaded and
steam propelled vehicle on a Locost frame.

Cheers
ewhen


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PostPosted: April 18, 2016, 9:12 am 
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Location: Outside Hartford, CT
Well.. this took a mega left hand turn. there's nothing wrong with changing the plan as you go.. but you need to have a feasible plan first.

Have you considered Direct Exhaust Injection?

Image


If I had my druthers, I'd convert a gasoline engine to CNG. relatively zero emissions, filling stations can be put right in your garage if you have natural gas at the street - or they're are enough fleet locations around that use them that its easy to fill up. Plus it has an octane rating of 130. you can run some pretty crazy ignition timing with that. Most of the CNG vehicles around here are ford 4.6's but there are plenty of conversion kits available that a small 4 cylinder running high compression, CNG and crazy ignition timing would be a pretty potent punch for a small, lightweight vehicle.

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PostPosted: April 18, 2016, 10:49 am 
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Location: Frankfort, KY(for now)
Everyone is right, I am all over the place. I had plan, didn't think it through fully, and it fell through. My "old" man Mr. Dunson used to tell me all the time (and still do) "James, slow down, and take your time." I am now. I have the idea of what im going to do. So, im going to take a month to restudy, plan, and the build. WVO and propane looks promising, now I just need more studying and planning. See yall in thirty days.


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PostPosted: April 18, 2016, 10:54 am 
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KB58 wrote:
Good lord man, this thread's bouncing all over the place. I strongly suggest stopping with the planning and fully researching the path forward, which will take about a year, seriously. . . .


There is something in what Kurt is saying. It will help you if you first write down all your goals and requirements. You can change them as you go along and educate yourself as to what's practical and possible, but keep a log of why you made the changes. Any design project has to have some set of criteria to design to.

Also, you can think about prototyping and starting with a smaller scale project to prove things out. For example, could you try some things out on a go cart at a much smaller, cheaper and more do-able scale to evaluate them?

I certainly don't want to discourage you. You have some interesting ideas you want to explore. It will help you if you start to organize yourself and your efforts, however.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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