cheapracer wrote:
olrowdy_01 wrote:
Yes, you could preset this solid axle design to have good high speed cornering but then it would have a tire wear problem for street use. If you set it up for street use then a well designed IRS should be able to outperform it AND get good tire wear on the track (or street
I'm also still wondering what handling advantage this solid axle would have over a 1908 thru 1948 Ford axle set up with 5 link positioning instead of the wishbone.But it will be interesting to see if a preset [static] camber will be better than an IFS that is purpose designed to correct various cornering loads, roll etc.
Yeah, nah - respectfully, like John above you, you have no idea how my beam works. I suggest you either go back and read my post on it or wait a few more days when an article is coming out on it that will make it a bit more clear.
Also respectfully,
Firstly, I am used to seeing the reason or advantages presented for a new design over an existing design when presenting something new. That's why I keep asking what advantage your axle has over any other solid axle (no matter what you call it). Other than built in adjustability the end result is still a solid axle in usage. Real solid axles can be adjusted by bending but are still solid axles when you are done
More importantly, I believe I have an excellent idea of how your axle works. In affect you've taken a 1908 Model T axle, inserted a swivel at the lower end of the king pin, installed a diagonal (preset-adjustable length) strut from the top of the king pin to a point on the solid axle, replaced the wishbone with 4 links to the chassis, added a pan hard (or something similar) to control lateral movement of the axle in relation to the chassis and called the whole thing a "semi-independent" suspension.It is a lightweight, semi independent beam that has full caster functionality (side to side independent) including caster induce camber in steer.
ALL front "axles" (including 1908 to 1948 Fords) whether solid or otherwise with caster have caster induced camber change in steer (for better or worse).
I contend that as long as you have the axle connecting the kingpins and the camber is fixed that the suspension is not semi or otherwise independent any more than a 1908 Ford. If one wheel moves vertically due to bounce/droop the other wheel is directly affected by the change to the bounced wheel.
Now if you can get the camber rods to ignore opposite side changes and automatically set the camber due to g forces you'd have something! You are taking the "flat footprint" too literal as well, it is a reference to keeping both wheels behaving properly unlike this for example .. [snip]
OK let's take the strict definition.
Define Flat:
Adjective, Having a surface without slope, tilt in which no part is higher or lower then another.
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Now let's see where I got this erroneous idea about flat footprint.
Your post of 7/1/2010
"Turning left only has nothing to do with tyre contact patch for a beam as both sides are flat 99% of the time but ...."
Your post of 7/2/2010
"Beams can offer flat footprint out of the box 95% of the time regardless of speed and conditions. ......"
You post of 12/30/2011
"It doesn't need camber correction because the 2 tyres maintain a flat footprint."
Your post of 6/9/2012
"Besides the supermodified car pictured above, look at the attitude of the 4 wheels of this 1953 vehicle with twin beams, ie: all perpendicular to the road... "
I see no mention of "Behaving properly". I do see "flat footprint" or perpendicular etc.
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As far as caster induced camber change ....
Your post of 6/27/2011 (Responding to my comment that camber is preset on a solid axle vs caster induced camber change.)
"It most certainly does compensate for it via using caster. You turn the steering and you gain neg camber. The problem with a solid beam is that same "neg camber giving caster" also at the same applies the incorrect amount of camber to the inside tyre and while not as important does take away some of the beam's advantage."
Your post of 12/3/2011 (Describing set up of the semi independent beam axle.)
"It most certainly does compensate for it via using caster. You turn the steering and you gain neg camber. The problem with a solid beam is that same "neg camber giving caster" also at the same applies the incorrect amount of camber to the inside tyre and while not as important does take away some of the beam's advantage."
The exact same conditions that the 1908 to 1948 Ford axle has if we ignore bounce/droop at this point. And in addition (as we both know) the caster induced change is not always the correct change for all cornering conditions. As an example look at the solid axle camber angle at full steering wheel lock at low speeds or even sitting still.
As I see it, your design is an easily adjustable -solid- front axle. But in affect still a solid front axle. The same as a 1908 Ford axle.
Lighter in weight? Well let's see,
1. You've got four links vs the 4 upper/lower A arms
2. You've got two additional swivels
3. You've got two additional camber setting links, brackets etc
4. And then there's that long axle.
I would imagine that one could affect the unsprung weight much more by careful selection of the brakes, uprights, rims, tires etc. And that would work for an IFS or a light solid axle design.
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"My junk is organized. At least is was when I put it wherever it is." -olrowdy
Completed building GSXR1000 CMC7, "Locouki"
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