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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:08 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: SoCal
In California, the fuel tank is considered part of the emissions system. Changing it to a fuel cell to, oh, possibly save your life, isn't good enough and will flag a failure. The point is, when installing "everything" from the donor, the OEM tank has to be included, or don't bother with all the effort.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Location: The Humid State of North Carolina
16vvincent wrote:
At this point you could have gone to the ref station and had them smog the car as a 90 as long as you swapped everything over..
This was at the Ref station.. It was a complete swap.. they were just being A-Hats!! LA county is in their own little world!

My brothers swap to Megasquirt was much simpler.. we found a smog station in Beverly Hills.. one that had no idea how to visual a 25yo car.. without OBD (One or Two!!) waited till they were swamped.. lined up.. passed the test and walked on through!

Now while he's in the Central Valley, he simply shows the previous years pass slips, that he lived in LA and assures them nothing has changed and they run the rollers and pass him without issue! As long as it passes they have told us they really don't care what's on the car! He's got a hollow Cat too and still manages to pass!!

It was definitely an LA thing.. but since I lived there and had been to the Ref there, they wouldn't let me do it anywhere else unless I had a residence there! I was tempted till I found the Diesel!!

KS

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 Post subject: SB100
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 231
Location: San Diego
I needed to go to the local DMV this morning to put my donor vehicle on a wreck title. I thought it might be worthwhile testing the water and seeing if I could go through the process of registering the locost and walking away with an SB100 number. I scheduled an appointment for 9.10am.........

Arrived 8.45am. The place is quite quiet. Stand in the registration line for 5 minutes. Get told I am too early for my appointment, come back at 8.55am. Returned at 8.55am. Given the relevant forms and given a wait number.

At 9.30am I get called to an assistant. Very pleasant lady, and she is excited at my project and wants to see the car when it is finished. I explained I wanted to see if there were any certificate of sequence numbers left. She seemed to know a bit about the process and was aware that they recycle unused numbers from prior years. She spent about 10 minutes reading instructions on her computer screen to refailiarize herself with the process. She examined the paperwork I had brought including photographs and receipts. Everything seemed to be in order. She left to call Sacramento......

She returns 10 minutes later and lets me know that she called Sacramento and was told there are more than 200 numbers left. Knowing that my project wasn't finished, she wanted to check that I'd be finished within 60 days as she had been told that I would be issued a permit to take my car to a BAR station, but that it would be valid for just 60 days. If I didn't go to the BAR station, then Sacramento would void the certificate of sequence number.

Convinced that the number would actually be valid for a year I asked her to go ahead and that I'd finish the car in 60 days. She says ok, but needs to leave her desk and that her colleague would assist me.

I get assigned to assistant 2. She has a different attitude, looks disgruntled and asks me what I want. I repeat the story. She asks if the car is complete. When I said no, she handed all the paperwork back and told me to come back when it was finished. Persuasive mode kicks in and I manage to convince her to speak to the supervisor. I watch her speak with the supervisor for 30 seconds. She returns and says they just called Sacramento (a lie) and they wont give me a number until I get a VIN number. Persuasive mode turns to frustrated mode and I explain that assistant 1 seemed to know the process. Assistant 2 tells me where to go.......back to see assistant 1.

Assistant 1 returns to her desk and offers to help. I explain the lack of progress. She apologizes and offers an opportunity for me to speak with the supervisor. The supervisor insists I need a VIN number before starting the process. My facial expression encouraged her to look at the guidance notes again and she realizes a VIN number is not required. She offers to contact Sacramento.

15 mins later she returns and advises me the numbers are all now gone and to come back in the new year. On my way out I go back to assistant 1 to thank her for trying to help. She asked if I got the number and was amazed that I was told none were left.

I left the DMV having spent 2.5 hours there, empty handed and tired.


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:52 am
Posts: 20
I think Assistant 1 was wrong. SB100 spots are usually gone by January 2nd of each year. That's why I built a trike. I registered it in middle of February with zero problems.

-Hong


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:35 am 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:26 pm
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Location: SoCal
Yeah those number go in a hurry. In the slow economy, they "might" last a day or two, but no way do any exist now.

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Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Last edited by KB58 on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:06 pm
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Location: Vista (north of San Diego CA)
Which office did you go to? It's always too bad when you run into folks who don't know how to help and don't mind staying ignorant. That you and I pay their salary only makes it worse. At least there was one person who wanted to help.

Like the others, I would be surprised to find any of the sequence numbers still available for this year, but maybe things are changing. That was also the first I'd heard of numbers being "recycled" from previous years. I was also told that my permit to drive to the CHP and Referee sites would only be valid a short while. Didn't need it though. By the time I was ready, I just trailered the car for the inspections.

And, not only is a VIN not required to start the process, the CHP won't even inspect the car (and assign the VIN) if you don't have the paperwork with you. It all starts with getting the papers and paying the fees at the DMV.

John


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:27 pm
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Location: Reno, Nv
I went in last year in November to my local DMV and was told that there were numbers left in June. This from the woman that did my paper work this January with no difficulty.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 231
Location: San Diego
I'm in the DMV trying to get an SB100 certificate of sequence. I could rant forever on this, but now having spent 20 minutes with a grumpy assistant that had no idea what the hell I was talking about and insisted the CHP were people to issue sequence numbers, I now have the manager trying to get through on the phone. Fingers crossed......


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:48 am
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Location: San Diego
It's 8.40am and I've been told I have number 226. I'm glad I lined up at 6.30 this morning! Anyone else have any success?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: SoCal
Congratulations for getting your number!

That's about how long I waited, and it's interesting how each year we go into this economic slowdown, people keep getting lower and lower numbers. That means there's fewer and fewer people requesting them, which makes sense; hot rods and kitcars are pretty low on the list of living expenses.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:06 pm
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Location: Vista (north of San Diego CA)
I talked to Lonnie last night. He got a number less that 200 (in the 160's I think). He went to the Escondido office and they seemed to take real good care of him. He was there two hours before the doors opened and was the first in. I think he said he was out by 10:00.

John


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:46 am
Posts: 219
Location: Santa Clara, CA
I was at the Santa Clara DMV today to pay my registration. Car is FAR from done, but I was able to pay for 2011 and keep my sequence number. Can continue every year until the car is done, without worry...

BTW, I asked the clerk how busy it was on Monday. She said they only had 4 guys in for SB100 and as of today they were only in the 200's...

Joe

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: SoCal
I obtained an SB-100 number at the start of 2009 and have been sitting on it. The number's going to be needed this year, so there's a few unanswered questions I have:
Once I have an SB-100 exemption number, is it good forever?
If I don't have the car done in one year, does it expire or does it stay with me until I'm ready?

Unless someone here knows for sure and says otherwise, I think I'll waste part of my Friday and find out in person at the local California DMV office. I'm thinking that there may be numbers left even today based upon how slowly they're being assigned (per the above posts.) If they say I'm golden as-is with my existing number, great, but if I have to get another number, so be it, as it'll be needed this year for sure.

Anyone know - for sure?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:54 am 
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It is unlikely that you will find it written that an exemption is forever.
A verbal from an official doesn't hold up unless the official supports it later.
I urge you to write a letter and send it certified mail, asking the specific question or at least call and request an email answer.

If denied later AND you have tangible mitigating evidence, I would say, "I'm sorry. I know you are just trying to do your job, but this will affect me financially. I need to discuss my options with a supervisor. What is the supervisors name and extension? Thank you for trying to help me." If the super doesn't come to you immediately, call him/her while you are still there.

Politely inform the supervisor of the official that you have a considerable investment in time and money based on what you have been told by their office in writing (provide photocopy of original). Explain that if denied, you will need to ask your local representative (research name prior to conversation) for assistance. Ask if there is anything else that can be done. Get the supervisors full name and immediately document the specifics of the conversation, time, date, etc. Follow through.

Most people do not react this way. You are expected to be rude and loud when you don't get your way. You will no longer be a number, separating yourself from the masses in a positive light.

In any event, I would expedite getting some sort of inspection, even if the car isn't ready. This would show evidence that you're attempting to comply.

Isn't government fun?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:45 pm
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
MiataV8:

Yours is good advice, based on my own experience of 30 years in Canadian Public Service - I know I'm not from California, but the same principles apply. It is always easy to find a rule that allows you to say 'No' in public service, and even easier to be 'innocent' of the rules surrounding something like the SB100, with 500 approvals a year out of what, 30 million vehicles?

Given the opportunity and desire, a good public servant, or their supervisor, can turn the question around. "Here is what we would like to achieve; is there something in our rule-set that will allow us to do this?" The lab I last worked in had an administrative manager with just that attitude, and he made a lot of scientists (his internal clients) happy. Ironically, he was an ex-auditor, who used the simple test of "How can I achieve this unusual request in a manner that will withstand audit?" to arrive a many innovative solutions.

Public servants are not congenitally obstructive, and the great majority would rather send you away satisfied than angry; but, it's much easier to find a solution for a rational person than one who is foaming at the mouth! :D And just like in business, it helps the client to be politely insistent, and be prepared to go up the chain-of-command when they first get to 'No' (or, 'Sorry, it can't be done.')

Ironically, I spent the first six years of my professional career with Vickers Shipbuilding Group in England. This defence contractor of 45,000 employees had bureaucratic processes that would do the California DMV proud (at least that is the impression I get from this string).

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