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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Thanks for the support guys.

@Ken: A friend of mine mentioned the same thing for the same reasons. The LS or LT would make a good amount of power and would probably fit my dimensions better (OTOH, who needs a hood? :lol: ). I have never really worked with any GM motors before, but hey, it might just be the change of scenery I've been looking for.

@KB: This build is most definitely for me. I know that I want this car to be a light touring/sometimes commuter/mostly weekend mountain car. I am pretty sure (I'd say 99.9%) that the V8 is the way that is gonna be the one for me.

:cheers:

-Sam

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:38 pm 
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I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you are more interested in a full and consistent torque curve than a peak horsepower setup. The 5.4 with a stock type blower is a pretty strong beast. ... and a reflash for the ecm is available so the stock electronics can be used even with a manual transmission.

Using the Whipple setup http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1203

Quote:
TECHNOLOGY MEETS INNOVATION

Whipple Superchargers have paved the way for forced induction applications over the years and truly set the industry standard when it comes to power, reliability and overall customer satisfaction. Whether your looking for a daily driver that needs a little more punch, towing heavy loads or craving a tire-frying, rubber shredding street machine, the Whipple Supercharger-Ford Racing SC package delivers like no other SC system today. Power from tip in to redline, the new Whipple SC system makes over 50% power across the entire rpm range while maintaining industry leading drive-ability.

The system boast a massive aluminum air-to-water intercooler designed and built by Fluidyne that mounts inside the cast aluminum long runner Whipple intake manifold that’s topped off with the W140ax Whipple Charger, the same technology that’s used on the Ford GT supercar. With 8psi of boost being forced through the intercooler, the stock engine produces nearly 475HP to the flywheel and 394 RWHP!

With years of OEM and racing experience, Whipple and Ford engineers have developed a unique PCM calibration that reconfigures all the necessary engine functions including fuel, spark, knock detection, torque management, transmission control and electronic throttle control.

Systems come complete with a high-flow cold-air intake system, aluminum intake manifold and air-to-water intercooler, Ford Racing PCM reflash tool, Ford Racing 0 range spark plugs, air-bypass system and all the necessary hardware for a simple installation.

EXCLUSIVE FEATURES:
Instant boost, zero lag time for incredible throttle response
Revolutionary W140ax Whipple twin-screw supercharger
Massive aluminum intercooler, heat exchanger and reservoir system
Twin screw supercharger is the most efficient SC on the market
Exclusive cold air intake system with high flow filter
Ford Racing PCM flash tool for industry leading reliability and operation
Self contained oil system, no tapping oil pan
Simple “do-it-yourself” installation


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of course there's always;
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/16/new-ford-5-0l-and-supercharged-5-4l-v8s-now-available-as-crate-e/;
Quote:
Thanks to an alert reader perusing the Ford Racing online parts catalog, we now know that both the new 5.0-liter "Coyote" V8 and the aluminum-block supercharged 5.4-liter V8 that power the 2011 Mustang GT and GT500 can be purchased in boxes.

The 412 horsepower, twin-cam 32-valve V8 comes fully dressed except for the air-conditioning compressor and alternator. That means it has compete fuel injection and ignition systems and all the manifolding and other bits. The other item that's not included is the wiring harness and powertrain control module which will set you back an extra $1,499 on top of the $6,999 for the engine.

For those with a hankering for even more grunt, the aluminum 5.4-liter also comes dressed for success with 550 hp and 510 pound-feet of torque. The cylinder bores of the new engine have been coated with a Plasma Transferred Wire Arc system to make them tougher than steel or iron with much lower weight. The blown engine is a good bit steeper – $20,999 – plus the harness and PCM. A tip of the hat to GT!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:39 am 
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This is for me ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Iw6Fs5HCU

If I lived in the US the only question for me would be V6 or V8.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:10 am 
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What doesn't make sense about such high-power setups - especially at lower speeds - is that the Locost simply can't put the power down. Because the cars are so light, having more than a couple 100 ft-lb of torque is useless. If you can spin the tires at 150 ft-lbs, how is having 300 ft-lbs "better". All it does is make more tire smoke.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:32 am 
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KB58 wrote:
What doesn't make sense about such high-power setups - especially at lower speeds - is that the Locost simply can't put the power down. Because the cars are so light, having more than a couple 100 ft-lb of torque is useless. If you can spin the tires at 150 ft-lbs, how is having 300 ft-lbs "better". All it does is make more tire smoke.


Besides your own quest for power in your own lightweight car which doesn't seem to agree with your post, weight is relevant - the same lack of weight downwards is also the same lack of weight that doesn't resist forward acceleration. It's more a case of how the weight is distributed to which set of wheels and Formula cars seem to do ok with upwards of a 1000hp pushing only 500 to 600 kgs.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:39 am 
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cheapracer wrote:
This is for me ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Iw6Fs5HCU

If I lived in the US the only question for me would be V6 or V8.


Wow that low rpm rumbly V8 sound really does nothing for me. Horrible, sounds like a Harley, or a fart :)

Don't get me wrong, I do like V8/10/12's, but they need to be highly strung. Can't beat the sweet purr of a high RPM engine :)

Luckily it's all personal preference and everyone is different, YAY!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:07 am 
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cheapracer wrote:
... Formula cars seem to do ok with upwards of a 1000hp pushing only 500 to 600 kgs.

... but can "weigh" 5000 kgs at speed due to downforce. If it weren't for the wings, all that power would be useless.

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Last edited by KB58 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:09 am 
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Yo, Sam!
I just now read your postings... Thanks for noticin' me... As you mention, I used 1.5 inch tubing for my build. I made that decision early on totally based on "seat of the pants", and now I wonder how necessary it really was. As I stated numerous times in my log, "I ain't no engineer." Rod's good-looking build uses (IIRC) 1.25 tubing and has proven to work just fine on the road. I think you could probably build a "normal" frame with the 1-inch and be good to go, as long as it was well built. (See "Engineer" disclaimer above.)

I totally understand wanting a V8, just because you want one. I love that rumble. (and I don't mind that TORQUE one little bit, either! :twisted: ) Colin Chapman and Arthur Mallock would probably slap me, but they ain't payin' for this car or driving it, so I'm gonna stick that big lump in it and not look back, dammit! :boxing:

If you're a Ford guy, and set on a V8 in a 7-ish car, I'd say check out the venerable 302 pushrod motor. The cylinder heads are a lot smaller than the newer modular Fords and the block itself looks narrower. (I haven't measured one.) There's plenty of hot-rod parts for the 302, and unlike the ubiquitous "Small Block Chevy" you won't find one in every street rod/custom car you look at. (Heehee... Same could be said of "Miata motors" and "Locosts", but we best not mention it in here, they gots us out-numbered!) I think you'll find the 302's are generally cheaper than the modulars to purchase, being older and more plentiful in potential "donor" cars. I got my 302 HO in an old Lincoln with the air ride shot and the interior trashed. 500 bucks... I imagine parts are the same way, cost-wise.

Having said all that: There's no reason you can't put a 5.4 or a 4.6 in a Seven chassis, just seems the 302 would fit easier. All the above is my .02, and since you're the one payin' for this build and doin' the work and driving it... Well, guess who gets to pick the motor you use?!?!? :D

Keep us posted on your progress, and feel free to stop into my build log if you want to ask a question or just visit.

:cheers:
JD "Did I spell ubiquitous right?" Kemp

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Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:13 am 
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Quote:
Wow that low rpm rumbly V8 sound really does nothing for me. Horrible, sounds like a Harley, or a fart


Tom, I happen to like the sound of a Harley. The other, not so much... :rofl:

*EDIT*
Well, to be honest, fart sounds can be pretty funny, if they're MINE! :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Quote:
Formula cars seem to do ok with upwards of a 1000hp pushing only 500 to 600 kgs.


They work quite well for the 50 or so people in the world that are good enough to deal with it....

I wish we had a nice little pushrod V8 that would do 8000 Rpm or so. 3 liters or less.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:58 pm 
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@Cheapracer: Same here! I cant tell you how many times I have watched that exact video and had to wipe the drool from my keyboard! (I lose more keyboards that way... :BH: :lol: )

@KB58: I am not planning on racing this at all really. I think that the one that I build after this one (Hmmm... Let's get done with this one first. :roll: ) I might explore the possibilities of a racing spec machine where I do need to worry about breaking the rear end loose at the the tap of the throttle. I have a bike to fulfill my need for racing after all... :twisted: You are right about the downforce in the Formula 1 cars though. Ever seen one lose a front wing? Instant understeer! :shock:

Quote:
I totally understand wanting a V8, just because you want one. I love that rumble. (and I don't mind that TORQUE one little bit, either! ) Colin Chapman and Arthur Mallock would probably slap me, but they ain't payin' for this car or driving it, so I'm gonna stick that big lump in it and not look back, dammit!


SO TRUE JD!!! Kinda reminds me when Jeremy Clarkson was testing the MB CL63 AMG. IIRC, he said, "It has so many torques that it actually moves the Earth while the car stands still."
I have really enjoyed reading about your build. You and Rod have been a big inspiration to me (and you have helped prove to my wife that it CAN be done! :lol: ) I'm most definitely not an engineer either but I was thinking that it wouldn't hurt to go with a beefier frame like you. These roads in the South, well, you know... The 302 is most definitely still an option (mated to the good 'ol T5 of course!). It is a tried and true system for sure with lots of options for upgrading. Whatever I get, I am planning on doing a complete rebuild (it is a lot easier to do it sooner rather than later).

I am also a fan of the lower RPM V8 sound (not too lopey though!). Nothing like cruising down the highway at 80mph and 3000-3500!


Thanks for the input guys!

:cheers:

-Sam

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:00 pm 
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To add to JD's post, if you want measurements on the 302 let me know, as I have one handy. Solid motor and tons of parts for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:10 pm 
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That'd be great! PM me!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Downix wrote:
To add to JD's post, if you want measurements on the 302 let me know, as I have one handy. Solid motor and tons of parts for it.


Doh!!! *Slaps forehead*
I didn't think of that. As a matter of fact, I've got one too, and I'd be happy to measure stuff. Lemme know...

For that matter, Slotus World Headquarters is on Rt 84 between Cairo and Beachton. Come on down some weekend and measure stuff to your heart's content. Bring James a 12 of Natty Light and you'll make a friend for life.

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Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:37 pm 
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That reminds me, I needed to measure out this new EJ22 that I was given (literally, a free engine although it needs a rebuild) so I will go and measure both now. Brb


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