Open Engine Design Project

cheapracer · **Joined:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:29 am **Posts:** 2592

Downix, I've always thought theres a real market for a proper V4 as in half an American V8.

Yes I know about the 1.6 bike engine but there was a handful of expensive V4's made for Speedway and Off Road racing but how awesome would a locost one be....

Downix · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:09 pm **Posts:** 154

cheapracer wrote:

Downix, I've always thought theres a real market for a proper V4 as in half an American V8.

Yes I know about the 1.6 bike engine but there was a handful of expensive V4's made for Speedway and Off Road racing but how awesome would a locost one be....

The only real worry about 4 cylinders is balancing the suckers. But this design should be adaptable. Size may be a bit low, as the per cylinder displacement is ~300cc, but I am game. Once I have the design pieces done I will be casting a v-twin model for testing purposes anyway.

Downix · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:09 pm **Posts:** 154

AceOfMace wrote:

I have seen a lot of engines being built, commercial available ones, miniatures, custom engines race engines... all that stuff (it is some kind of popular over here)
I´d definitely recommend some of the old Porsche designs (I still have tons of blueprints) since they are easy and quickly build, reliable and make good power. Before Radical (long time before radical) there have been a lot of engines consisting of two BE blocks mated together on a custom crankcase ... I once read an very interesting article (sad, it was not really a engineers point of view / interest) - I will try to dig it up.
However as mentioned the Porsche designs have several benefits like the cylinders that can easily be produced and exchanged, the independent heads, the air-cooling - and if you take a look at the people who are really into building engines from ground up - most of them go this route
I´d stay away from pushrods

Sorry, I´m in a hurry - will get clear on this later

Porche, VW and Corvair air cooled designs are all part of my research pool here. (I have two complete sets of Corvair blueprints now, one for '64, one for '66)

I am curious why not the pushrods, as the modular head design does not lend itself to an overhead cam setup easily.

AceOfMace · **Posted:** Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:45 am

Pushrods simply have been a major reason for trouble in my experience with homebuilt / low-volume engines. You are definitely right but fitting x independent cylinders to one crankcase and one common cylinder head per row should work fine with OHCs.

Downix · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:09 pm **Posts:** 154

Well, I still have the gear çam design. Can adapt that easily. Now, that opens up multiple valves. The May design I had lends itself to three / four valve setups. But do not want to redesign at this again, so adapting the two valve to ohc would be simpler.

cheapracer · **Joined:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:29 am **Posts:** 2592

Downix wrote:

so adapting the two valve to ohc would be simpler.

The FIAT 128 1.1, 1.3, 1.5 (X19) 2 valve SOHC design was a good one and highly regarded ..

http://www.google.com.hk/search?um=1&hl ... 0l0l0ll0l0

Downix · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:09 pm **Posts:** 154

cheapracer wrote:

Downix wrote:

so adapting the two valve to ohc would be simpler.

The FIAT 128 1.1, 1.3, 1.5 (X19) 2 valve SOHC design was a good one and highly regarded ..

http://www.google.com.hk/search?um=1&hl ... 0l0l0ll0l0

while yes, a good design (and I have a Subaru EJ22 right here to study for another SOHC cam which is also highly regarded) the issue is that it is a modular head, so the cam would need to stretch between the heads, while maintaining lubrication. I am working on several ideas to address this, however.

cheapracer · **Joined:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:29 am **Posts:** 2592

You'll enjoy the oddities (but clever) at this website but specifically this page where you can see how he has joined up multiple individual SOHC cylinder heads to make a 4 cylinder top end ..

http://www.wirthwein-motoren.de/index.p ... show&id=43

Downix · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:09 pm **Posts:** 154

Ok, first test-cast went badly. My little forge just can't hold enough metal. Time to upgrade.

I've ordered a pair of the 80mm wet sleeves as well. Here's the website: http://www.madisontractor.com/825138m1- ... 43838.html

I know, they're tractor sleeves, but this is locost.

GonzoRacer · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:57 pm

Downix wrote:

Ok, first test-cast went badly. My little forge just can't hold enough metal. Time to upgrade.

I've ordered a pair of the 80mm wet sleeves as well. Here's the website: http://www.madisontractor.com/825138m1- ... 43838.html

I know, they're tractor sleeves, but this is locost.

There have been some really great sports cars that used tractor motors! Cough-cough-TR6-cough-cough...

Warren Nethercote · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:06 pm

Not quite as bad, but the Austin Healy six started life in the Austin 5 ton truck ....

cheapracer · **Joined:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:29 am **Posts:** 2592

GonzoRacer wrote:

There have been some really great sports cars that used tractor motors!

Lamborghini and Aston Martin.....

Downix · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:09 pm **Posts:** 154

Ok, picked up the foam for the first block cast. I like the aircooled idea but am not yet comfortable with it yet so am using a water cooled for now. The head design Toby came up for me is looking good, and his suggestion for the long rod design is demonstrating that it would be quite robust. He takes long stroke engines and destrokes them for his racing engines. His 1.6l Slant 6 regularly wins on the local track against the Honda and Toyota's he is most times going up against.

Downix · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:09 pm **Posts:** 154

And now handed something in a stroke of luck, an original Model A engine block, stripped down (actually looks unused) to study. muahaha.

Driven5 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:51 pm

You're probably more well aware of the intricacies than I am, but I don't know that I'd be looking too closely at the Model A engine for design inspiration. :wink:

http://www.modelaengine.com/

So which way did you ultimately end up going with the overall head layout and design, or are you still not 100% certain yet?

I have to say your updates keep me coming up with crazy ideas of building an engine someday too...Of course then I either decide there's already something too similar already available, or even for all of its unique glory can't justify the expense for something that will likely never perform (horsepower, torque, fuel economy, emissions, reliability, or longevity) anywhere near as well as most any of the previously mentioned production engines in addition to probably costing an order of magnitude more when all is said and done.

Aren't you in the Seattle area, or nearby? If you ever want to grab a beer and talk engines or whatnot, shoot me a PM

LocostUSA.com

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