LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:20 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 927 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 ... 62  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:20 am
Posts: 86
Location: New Zealand
Lonnie-S wrote:
nisseven wrote:
. . . <snip> . . . You seem to obsessed with getting a perfect and while I admire your need for perfection it is not the end of the world if you have a little gap.


I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with making a perfect weld. However, when I see work that is really excellent, I genuinely do admire it and I'd like to get as close to that as possible. Most who produce welds and fabrication at a very high level have been doing it for years. I realize I won't get to that level, and if I took the time to do so, I'd never get my Locost done! So, it's a matter of trying to achieve a balance between "good enough" and truly professional.



Hi Lonnie
Just realised that I missed a word in the above and what I should have said was "perfect fit".
In other words if you have a little gap that should not be a problem for the MIG.
Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
Geez, I'm starting to worry about myself. Although it's a tremendous amount of work, I'm really enjoying the process of building the chassis. Ninety-five percent of my career was spent doing things with my brain and very little with my hands except using a keyboard and sketching. The last few weeks have been more about developing good shop methods and mastering the various pieces of machinery I have, and honing my fabricating skills. It's been very satisfying.

Probably each of us building a Locost has a unique perspective and core set of reasons for taking the time and trouble to build one of these cars. In my case a huge part of wanting to do it is the actual process of fabricating my particular variation of the design. As a youngster, I didn't dream of being a race car driver. I dreamed of being a race car designer and builder. The racing part was of interest too, of course. Why else would you build a race car if not to race it? Every weekend possible, I was at some kind of racing event, but I didn't think of myself in the cockpit. The pits and mechanical activities were just as interesting to me as the race was.

During the first 15 years of my career those it was easy to satisfy my mechanical and fabrication aspirations vicariously. I drove right by Sears Point (now Infineon) Raceway ten times a week: once each morning and evening, Monday through Friday. For a large portion of the year, I could see outstanding race teams, race cars and fabricators at work from the regional, national and even international levels. I was able to see a lot of excellent race cars. But, seeing is a lot easier than doing and now I'm having to do the "doing" part in my humble little home garage.

I've overcome the early frustrations of tools with inaccurate scales, learned to cut with a slight bias off the finished part line for good final fitting by hand, and learned to trust my own drawings and graphic layouts, which are pretty damned good now. The last few weeks have been about developing quality not producing quantity.
Attachment:
File comment: Beginnings of the aft end of the tunnel structure.
Rear-Tunnel-In-Situ.jpg
Rear-Tunnel-In-Situ.jpg [ 101.56 KiB | Viewed 767 times ]


A case in point is the tunnel structure. I'm building it both on and off the table and layout. The idea is to build and weld as much of the structure off the table as possible and then do the final fitting and welding to the major structure only where absolutely necessary. I hope to increase accuracy and minimize distortion by doing so.
Attachment:
File comment: Reliable and accurate tools for reading and making angles.
Reliable-tools.jpg
Reliable-tools.jpg [ 109.38 KiB | Viewed 767 times ]


I've ended up with a small set of simple, accurate and reliable layout tools. There's just too much variation in accuracy between manufacturers and I've found keeping things as simple as possible is resulting in better parts.
Attachment:
File comment: Laying out a cut on the bandsaw.
Transferring-Angles.jpg
Transferring-Angles.jpg [ 97.04 KiB | Viewed 767 times ]


My little homemade clamp is turning out some good results. I read the angles off the layout graphics or existing parts and then transfer them directly to the saw. The clamp works for RHS or tubing and is utterly simple and made from scrap materials used on the build table.
Attachment:
File comment: Clamp with tubing in place.
Whole-Clamp.jpg
Whole-Clamp.jpg [ 113.46 KiB | Viewed 767 times ]


The bandsaw miter is just a means to an end now. I've stopped trying to use it as a direct means of cutting the part. It is essential to getting a clean cut, however.
Attachment:
File comment: The result.
Tight-Fit-Up.jpg
Tight-Fit-Up.jpg [ 164.55 KiB | Viewed 767 times ]

This is what I was really after and can now produce reliably. I've a really good fit-up, zero slop and a nice place for the welding filler material to penetrate and join the pieces together. I've done other areas and then welded them off table, but want to get better at controlling distortion. I'd rather have it occur in the part before final fitting to the chassis rather than in one big, final go, doing everything at once and when everything is connected to everything else as it distorts. We'll soon see if my strategy works out as intended.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 12:24 pm 
Offline
Toyotaphobe
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 3364
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
I've always welded in pieces and then joined the pieces. It makes it easier to control distortion or at least keeps it in smaller places.

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
It looks like I'll be laying off the shop work for two weeks. My right hand issue persisted and a Monday visit to the doctor got a diagnosis, relief and instructions to rest my hand for two weeks. No big. Just an overuse issue causing inflammation of the tendon sheaths. A little Cortisone mixed with Xilocaine and some rest will fix them up just fine.

My definite preference is to do the final fit-up by hand with files rather than use the bench grinder and combination disk/belt sander. It's a little too easy to go past a good fit, at least for me, with those machines. It turns out going from zero to 5-6 hours a day using the hand tools was just too much, too quickly. And, of course, you have to be smart enough to stop when things hurt, which I wasn't.

This is giving me some time to read my library books on suspension design, start fiddling with the design software I purchased (big learning curve) and measuring up the suspension pieces I have on hand. My first try at modeling the suspension will most likely start with setting up models with the general dimensions and angles of the Book Locost and the Haynes Roadster, suitably modified to accommodate my donor spindles and live rear axle. With the learning curve involved that should take a couple of weeks at least.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:51 pm 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 5906
Location: Massachusetts
You might look at the work Seattle Tom did for doing Wishbone runs. His spread sheet makes doing some of the numbers easier. The download and description is in the Wishbone thread. It would be nice if someone did the adaptations ( just some different numbers ) for the Locost or Haynes...

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 8:39 pm
Posts: 508
Location: new zealand
Gee's.. Lonnie i love your build pics..the fit is so exact you could hang it on the wall as a piece of artwork..sorry to hear about hand hope it recovers quickly..keep up the good work
Kiwi Dave

_________________
I USE TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND ..BUT MY BRAINS KEPT FALLING OUT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
horizenjob wrote:
You might look at the work Seattle Tom did for doing Wishbone runs. His spread sheet makes doing some of the numbers easier. The download and description is in the Wishbone thread. It would be nice if someone did the adaptations ( just some different numbers ) for the Locost or Haynes...


I think I'm going to have my hands full with the program I have. It's pretty complex, but very complete. I'll take a look at the spreadsheet stuff just to check it out, though.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
laserracer wrote:
Gee's.. Lonnie i love your build pics..the fit is so exact you could hang it on the wall as a piece of artwork..sorry to hear about hand hope it recovers quickly..keep up the good work
Kiwi Dave


Thank you very much, Dave.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
horizenjob wrote:
You might look at the work Seattle Tom did for doing Wishbone runs. His spread sheet makes doing some of the numbers easier. The download and description is in the Wishbone thread. It would be nice if someone did the adaptations ( just some different numbers ) for the Locost or Haynes...


I downloaded the latest version and took a look at the PDF output from it, which is in the ZIP file. If I had more time, I'd play with it some and do a comparison of what I get from it versus the software I'm going to use. But, I just don't have the extra time right now. It does have more output data that the version I saw maybe 2 (?) years ago. The software I'm using is interactive with better graphics, so I'm going to put my limited time into that one.

Thanks for the pointer, though.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:28 pm 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 5906
Location: Massachusetts
Yup, I remembered a day or two after the post that you had shown shots of the software you were going to use...

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
Well Buckaroos, it's been quite a while since I've posted or worked on the car. I'm back on the job now and my feelings are best expressed by this little tune sung by cousin Buck his own self. To wit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_EcSvn3 ... re=related

As it turned out, mama and I had this fantastic idea the week I was cleared to get physical with the grinder, saws and files again. It was so good that it took me on an unexpected 10 day journey, having nothing at all to do with the Locost, which resulted in the following addition to the Smith Family fleet of fine vehicles.

Attachment:
File comment: New 2012 Dodge Grand Caravan
Small-Front-3Qtr.jpg
Small-Front-3Qtr.jpg [ 184.81 KiB | Viewed 507 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Profile view
Small-Side-View.jpg
Small-Side-View.jpg [ 125.1 KiB | Viewed 507 times ]


After much discussion and examining of options, it was decided mama's 11 year old sedan and my 9 year old combination beach cruiser/dog-mobile were sorely in need of a consolidated, modern replacement. It was clear we needed a rather unique vehicle that could ride the Garden Club ladies in style with mama, yet on other occasions, transport us along with the 3 sheep dogs plus a camp trailer or haul 10 foot lengths of steel and not look like a FedEx truck. And, I'll be damned, someone right here in North America makes one. Ain't she purdy?

Our decision made it necessary for me to prepare and sell our 2 elderly vehicles as soon as possible to take advantage of a very favorable, time-limited financial offer, which I did. It was also nice to do a little something ourselves along with the economies of the USA, Canada and (I suspect) Mexico. That's why I didn't work on the Locost - until today.

So, now I'm back in trouble again. I'm surprised that I got so stupid again so quickly. My welds have lost what little beauty that had, but are still plenty strong. Thank goodness I'm working on the transmission tunnel and not something that will show.

Attachment:
File comment: Extended, fitted and welded the lower tunnel plus first uprights.
Tunnel-Restart.jpg
Tunnel-Restart.jpg [ 94.22 KiB | Viewed 507 times ]


I did run into a problem trying to MIG weld the sharp angles marked in the photo below. I can't get the nozzle in to the joint and had to be content for the moment to wrap around the outside welds just 1/8" or so. That leaves about 1/2" unwelded inside the joint. This part is for a secondary structure and is very strong as is. I could probably get away with not welding these joints, but don't like the idea and hope someone out there has a suggestion.

Attachment:
File comment: Narrow, tough welds to make with a MIG gun.
Tough-MIG-Welds.jpg
Tough-MIG-Welds.jpg [ 105.63 KiB | Viewed 507 times ]


As a desperate last measure, I tried removing the nozzle and welding flux core style, but that didn't work. It was like popping pop corn. I had tried letting the filler wire extend out long and that sort of worked, but was also like a torch and burned back the edge of one tube a little. That was easy to fix because it was on an outside edge. However, it seemed too risky to try inside just in case it had the same effect in an area I couldn't get to and fix.

This is something I can let go for a while. The part is plenty strong enough to go in place now and I can fix it when I do the final weld of the chassis. Hopefully, this will give me time to find a solution. Does anyone have any ideas about how to weld these narrow joints?

Cheers,

Lonnie

P.S. It was decided that when I finish the Locost, I'd have my own runabout to keep me happy and do silly things with. So, now I have a big incentive to finish the Locost before the current century ends and free up the garage for mama's new ride. You know, I think women are sometimes a lot smarter than they look. :?

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:44 am 
Offline
We are Slotus!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:29 am
Posts: 5227
Location: Tallahassee, FL (The Center of the Known Universe)
Yo Lonnie-
Welllllll..... It's a testimony to our advancing age that I'm even saying this, but.....

"Congratulations on getting the nice mini-van!"

And, just to counter-point that statement, how about this version?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPS4LyveJs

I would have suggested running the wire out to a length that would reach down inside those angles... But you've tried that. Uhhh... out of suggestions.... Were you inside, doors closed, out of the wind when you tried it that way? You would not get much "shielding effect" from the gas when the arc is that far from the tip... would tend to make some not-pretty welds...

OK, I give up, let's wait for the smart people to answer you... :mrgreen:

But, hey, you're back to working on the Locost! Hip-Hip-Hooray!
:cheers:

JDK

_________________
JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
GonzoRacer wrote:
Yo Lonnie-
Welllllll..... It's a testimony to our advancing age that I'm even saying this, but.....

"Congratulations on getting the nice mini-van!"

I know I'll sound like one of those morons from oxy, but this is not your grandma's mini-van. This thing actually handles, has almost no flexing and has excellent brakes. Besides, it has a 6-speed, "manumatic" transmission which gives me something to do beside fiddle with the fancy controls. The new Pentastar V6 is killer and just south of 300 HP. In an interesting sort of quasi-endorsement, look for it to appear in single- and twin-turbocharged versions in -- I'm not kidding -- Alpha Romeo products over the next couple of years. Given how fussy and prideful the Italians are with respect to their engines, that's quite a development.

Besides, when I finish the Locost I'll have something totally amusing to drive.

GonzoRacer wrote:
And, just to counter-point that statement, how about this version?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPS4LyveJs

Thank you for the update on the old standard, JD. I think my ears are still ringing. How does he manage scream like that? Maybe his private parts are trapped in a clamping device? :lol:

GonzoRacer wrote:
I would have suggested running the wire out to a length that would reach down inside those angles... But you've tried that. Uhhh... out of suggestions.... Were you inside, doors closed, out of the wind when you tried it that way? You would not get much "shielding effect" from the gas when the arc is that far from the tip... would tend to make some not-pretty welds...


Even with the nozzle off, the tip has to be slanted inward quite a bit. I don't think much shielding gas was present based on the popping I observed.

GonzoRacer wrote:
OK, I give up, let's wait for the smart people to answer you... :mrgreen:

But, hey, you're back to working on the Locost! Hip-Hip-Hooray!
:cheers:

JDK

Smart people. Yes, that's what I'm hoping for. I'd have to consider this a "designer error" and if he didn't work so cheap, I'd fire his dumb ass. I don't think I made the same error anywhere else, though. :oops: I bet there is a way to solve it. Maybe with a stick or gas welder?

Have a good Sunday, JD. I'm looking forward to working on the Locost until the live coverage for the 24 Hours of Le Mans mid-month, which is one of the few benefits I get from the 600 (or whatever) channels of TV available.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:34 pm
Posts: 272
Location: Alberta
Interesting, the wife and I just picked up a 2011 Dodge Caravan Crew on Tuesday (identical to the 2012 except the double red line in the logo). I'm very impressed with it as well. As you said Lonnie, its not a sports car, but with the revised suspension and 283 HP, it handles pretty well. My DD is a F250, so this thing feels pretty good. First vehicle I've bought that wasn't a Ford with a V8 and its likely the fastest. Congrates on the new ride!

A stick was used on all the acute angles on my frame. They are still tricky to weld, but better than no weld at all.

_________________
Trochu Motor League


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
Trochu wrote:
Interesting, the wife and I just picked up a 2011 Dodge Caravan Crew on Tuesday (identical to the 2012 except the double red line in the logo). I'm very impressed with it as well. As you said Lonnie, its not a sports car, but with the revised suspension and 283 HP, it handles pretty well. My DD is a F250, so this thing feels pretty good. First vehicle I've bought that wasn't a Ford with a V8 and its likely the fastest. Congrates on the new ride!
A stick was used on all the acute angles on my frame. They are still tricky to weld, but better than no weld at all.


Congrats on your new ride as well. I think they've done a really good job with the new Grand Caravan. It looks like a real winner in its category.

Thanks for the info on the stick welding of acute angles. I've got a simple TIG welder that will do stick welding also. I think I better set it up again soon and start practicing.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 927 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 ... 62  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY