LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:42 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 330 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 22  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:43 pm
Posts: 455
Location: Portland, OR
BrokeAssSeven wrote:
Did I miss something in class, or is my rear end all wrong for an IRS setup? I went with the plans, but now that I think about it... they are 'using' a solid rear axle, no? I think my frame tubes under the rear wheel area need to be WAYYY more inboard. I was wondering how the lower control arm would work being so close to the upright.. so I looked around.. and came upon Matt Roger's +442 Miata build.... Should mine be more in-line with what Matt is doing... or am I still on the right track? I'd like to get it fixed sooner than later if that's the case... and are there any tried and true dimensions off the center line that these tubes should be... or is it really just a crap shoot?
My lower frame tubes are about 8" off center. The tubes that the suspension attaches to come directly off of those, which is why they're placed where they are. If they weren't, they could probably go a few inches outboard without causing interference with the lower control arms in full droop.

I ended up going back to "forward" oriented upper upright bushings in the back. I did this for shock/spring clearance. Unfortunately, I've got some interference with the K3/K4 tubes in bump, so I'll have to trim those to fit the suspension travel.

My rear frame area is a little flatter, too. If you don't want to completely re-do the tube geometry, Chet's build started out with the solid axle geometry from the book and he re-did his for IRS: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=952&start=60.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Southern NH
So, I went ahead and did some surgery, gingerly cutting out the rear tubes with a saws-all (hahah, yea, gingerly). I then moved them much further inboard, with 8″ clearance on either side of the center line (thanks, Matt). This is going to work much much better. After that was done, I tacked in the lower engine bay tubes, and did all of my side frame strengthening triangulation. That was fun. Compound angles with nothing to go by but my eye. Stoked I ended up buying a stand-up belt/disk sander, which made the task a hell of a lot easier. Just cut the first angles, and ground until it fit. Needless to say, it’s all done. Finally. I started final welding the frame, and got about half way done before my feet were screaming after standing in boots for 8 hours. After letting it cool, I unclamped and hey, the frame was still 100% straight! Of course, I’m not done, but this gives me a lot of hope, haha. So, the plan tonight is to continue on the welding. I wasn't planning on grinding many, if any, of the welds... but I think I may grind any that are on the 'surface' of the frame. I think i'd end up having to anyway to attach the body panels, but its going to serve as double duty to make sure they are all good... there were a few sketchy ones, but overall, it went pretty smoothly.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 1404
Location: Novato, CA
Nice work, Brad. It looks a lot more like an IRS frame now. Welding up the frame turned out to be a lot more of a project than I expected. More than 500 welds and you want to feel good about each one of them. It seemed to me like half the welds were on the transmission tunnel. I guess you've still got that to look forward to. And all the grinding to get the various panels to fit flush. Keep at it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Southern NH
Well, it's been a month, and no updates. There hasn't been much to update about, really. I've been working like crazy, trying to find time to work out (i need to fit in this damn thing when it's done!), and welding/grinding/welding/grinding. Man, I didn't think that final welding this frame would be so damn time consuming. Oh well, things have been going extreeemeeelly slow lately. I really need to get back into it.. watched a couple videos about being passionate about cars (Love the Beast by Eric Bana, Apotheosis [older MR2 DVD])... makes me want to really get back into it ferociously. Anyway, I didn't want anyone thinking I had given up, or had fallen off the face of the earth, so thought I'd stop by!

_________________
-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:58 am
Posts: 85
Brad
I'm usually in Manchester on thursdays... if this rain ever stops i'll drive up in my seven to motivate you. our friend Mr. Rogers enjoyed his blatt in my car last year!

cheers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 1404
Location: Novato, CA
BrokeAssSeven wrote:
Man, I didn't think that final welding this frame would be so damn time consuming.

Gets a little monotonous, doesn't it? You weld until you get tired of welding, then grind until you get tired of grinding, then go back to welding. But it gets done eventually. Glad to see you're still at it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:45 am 
Offline
We are Slotus!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:29 am
Posts: 5156
Location: Tallahassee, FL (The Center of the Known Universe)
nick47 wrote:
BrokeAssSeven wrote:
Man, I didn't think that final welding this frame would be so damn time consuming.

Gets a little monotonous, doesn't it? You weld until you get tired of welding, then grind until you get tired of grinding, then go back to welding. But it gets done eventually. Glad to see you're still at it.

+1 on all of that... Hang in there, it does have an end point!
:cheers:

_________________
JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:11 am
Posts: 3060
Location: West Chicago,IL
Quote:
But it gets done eventually.
Yep. what he said. Usually when you paint the frame. Even after several visual inspections, I missed several welds only to find them when painting. (one reason I don't recommend powder coat)

Keep at the welding progress. It will be worth it in the end.

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Check out my rotary build log: click here


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Southern NH
wemtd wrote:
Brad
I'm usually in Manchester on thursdays... if this rain ever stops i'll drive up in my seven to motivate you. our friend Mr. Rogers enjoyed his blatt in my car last year!

cheers.


Sounds good Paul. I'm sure it will definitely motivate me to get my ass in gear, actually seeing one, and taking a ride in one. I'm in Derry during the day/ Londonderry by evening, available for rides any time haha. My car is londonderry, so if you wanted to check it out, we'd have to make a set time on any thursday to meet there (I work in derry). Both of which are only about 15 min. from manchester. Let me know!!

And thanks everyone... yea, its frustrating, but in the end... ah, I can't wait! Every single nice day I drive around in my junk box civic... all I can think about is how it'll feel when I can just take the Locost instead!

_________________
-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Southern NH
Spent the day while the wife was away! Disassembled the front sub assembly from the Miata... really really really wish I had diassembled the front and rear while they were on the car. Was just trying to get the car stripped to get rid of the shell. An hour spent would have been 5 hours saved. Loosening bolts that have been rusting for 17 years, on a movable assembly = NOT EASY. Thank god I have air tools, a 2' breaker bar, and contortionist legs. -- I have someone coming hopefully this week to take the subframes out of the yard.. I think he was offering some 100 each for them w/ upper and lower control arms. I took the rear uppers (well.. the outside mount from them), and he was fine with that. I think 200$ is a decent deal - no? I'm not sure what they go for in the aftermarket, so anything is better than them taking up space in the driveway.

I took pictures and measurements all over them, from side to side, front to back, mostly of the mounting points for the suspension (though, it likely won't matter in the end), but also to get total width, etc. I may not need it, ever, but I figured better safe than sorry.

Now, I think I knew the answer to this at some point, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. The rear track width is likely going to stay the same as the miata, otherwise I'd have to lengthen/shorten the axles, right? I didn't take actual width measurements to see if the stock width will fit, but I assume it will.

That being said... the front track width should match the rear track width (this isn't a drag frame), so, if the rear is staying stock, the front should be staying stock width.. which means, the stock steering rack would stay.. well, stock length. Yet, people are shortening them some 6". ... Why? -- Unless of course, the stock miata width far exceeds that of a book frame, and the axles get shortened 3" on each side, resulting in an overall 6" shortening up front?

I'm building +442, so I assume I'd be only shortening the rack.. 2" (or whatever the norm -4 is)?

Taking a month off from doing any research made me dumb. I feel like I knew more about this car before I ever started it than I do now.

Thanks in advance for any advice/answers you've got!

_________________
-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:37 am
Posts: 690
Location: Tennessee
BrokeAssSeven wrote:
Spent the day while the wife was away! Disassembled the front sub assembly from the Miata... really really really wish I had diassembled the front and rear while they were on the car. Was just trying to get the car stripped to get rid of the shell. An hour spent would have been 5 hours saved. Loosening bolts that have been rusting for 17 years, on a movable assembly = NOT EASY. Thank god I have air tools, a 2' breaker bar, and contortionist legs. -- I have someone coming hopefully this week to take the subframes out of the yard.. I think he was offering some 100 each for them w/ upper and lower control arms. I took the rear uppers (well.. the outside mount from them), and he was fine with that. I think 200$ is a decent deal - no? I'm not sure what they go for in the aftermarket, so anything is better than them taking up space in the driveway.

I took pictures and measurements all over them, from side to side, front to back, mostly of the mounting points for the suspension (though, it likely won't matter in the end), but also to get total width, etc. I may not need it, ever, but I figured better safe than sorry.

Now, I think I knew the answer to this at some point, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. The rear track width is likely going to stay the same as the miata, otherwise I'd have to lengthen/shorten the axles, right? I didn't take actual width measurements to see if the stock width will fit, but I assume it will.

That being said... the front track width should match the rear track width (this isn't a drag frame), so, if the rear is staying stock, the front should be staying stock width.. which means, the stock steering rack would stay.. well, stock length. Yet, people are shortening them some 6". ... Why? -- Unless of course, the stock miata width far exceeds that of a book frame, and the axles get shortened 3" on each side, resulting in an overall 6" shortening up front?

I'm building +442, so I assume I'd be only shortening the rack.. 2" (or whatever the norm -4 is)?

Taking a month off from doing any research made me dumb. I feel like I knew more about this car before I ever started it than I do now.

Thanks in advance for any advice/answers you've got!

Just because the front track is stock doesn't mean the steering rack should stay stock. On a 442 the frame is much more narrow than a stock Miata, therefor the chassis mounting points are not stock. Your control arms will be much longer than a stock Miata.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:37 am
Posts: 690
Location: Tennessee
My rack was shortened six inches. My suspension numbers are posted on my build log on page four. I think this is the link.(viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11665&start=45) Of course, this doesn't mean your numbers will be the same as mine. This is just an example.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Southern NH
photoman wrote:
Just because the front track is stock doesn't mean the steering rack should stay stock. On a 442 the frame is much more narrow than a stock Miata, therefor the chassis mounting points are not stock. Your control arms will be much longer than a stock Miata.


So, the inner/outer tie rods will be super long then? The mounting points, I can totally see (and probably why I knew the answer before), but I was just getting confused becuase if tis gotta be the same length.. then somethings gotta get longer when the rack gets shorter... Gotta be the tie rods. Did I read somewhere that old ass civic tie rods worked out pretty well for this? I'll have to just keep going with research, and I'll check your build log again (I've referenced it a couple times now:)). Thanks!

_________________
-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:27 pm
Posts: 476
Location: Reno, Nv
Most of us just add a spacer to tie the outer rod end to the tie rod.
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/download/file.php?id=14753

_________________
John - Slow and Steady. . . Well slow anyway
Build Loghttp://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6245


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:11 am
Posts: 3060
Location: West Chicago,IL
Use the search tool and look for "bump steer". All will be revealed. I used the section cut out of the rack to make the tie rod extenders.

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Check out my rotary build log: click here


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 330 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 22  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY