LocostUSA.com

Well, maybe I am making progress. Now I am just confused as opposed to discouraged. . .

This brings up a couple of more questions;

- If the MSO is the only sticking point for getting registered, how much of a "kit" do I need to purchase to get the MSO? I know Kinetic Vehicles offers a soup to nuts kit, but would they sell me a bare frame with a MSO document? Would a nosecone count for the body?

- I have been reading up on this forum about members using the complete Miata subframe for the rear suspension. If there is a serial number on that component, and I have a title for the original donor would that make the requirement for an MSO not applicable?

hmmmmm, more research required.

Precisely my line of thinking as well. rx7locost is likely correct on the MSO/MCO being equivalent (here in Texas at least, given the documentation). In light of that, I think it really does come down to the question of "what actually distinguishes a homebuilt from a kit car, in the eyes of Texas". Something tells me that if you asked a DMV clerk, a police officer responsible for inspecting the car for issuance of an ID number, and a legislator, you'd probably get three different answers (which is fundamentally the crux of the registration "issue" across the country).

The only manufacturer I can find that explicitly lists a bare chassis for sale is MK Sportscars:
http://www.mksportscars.com/parts-chassis.html
Haven't yet checked with them to determine if they'll issue an MCO for just buying the frame, though.

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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.

Pretty chassis! All powder coated and ready to go. One thousand pounds is what, about $1,600? That's a lot cheaper than the other full kits I have found from looking around the web.

I think you are right that the key is homemade vs. kit and which particular DMV employee or county clerk is doing that interpretation. Here in Fort Bend there are three county tax registration offices - up in Tarrant I'm sure you have even more choices. Keep shopping till you find the right one?

If I was going to frame this a "What's my worst risk moving forward?" I could locate a manufacturer willing to sell me a bare chassis with a MSO/MCO and get a quote. Then I could proceed on my merry way building my own chassis however I want. If fortune smiles and I finish in the next three to four years I will see what happens. If the DMV is intractable about the MSO being the key document, buy the chassis and adapt it as required. I would be out the ~$2000 for the chassis and my time to rebuild and re-engineer. That seems a horrible waste of time and dollars, but at least it is a boundary constraint.

Part of the big appeal to me in building a locost is the incremental approach. The initial equipment setup (I don't have all the fabrication equipment - welder, metal saw, fab. table, etc. . .) is looking to be around $1000. Then I don't need a significant outlay until the frame is done and I find the donor car. Then I can proceed as funds and time allow. Re-reading the preceding paragraph I see a lot of "if" statements. Maybe I should go back to getting my design straight in my head and a plan on paper? Keep the registration problem in sight but focus on the build?

By the way if I am wandering down a useless avenue where others have been burned I would welcome any feedback or constructive criticism. The discussion so far has been very helpful and I really appreciate it.

Yes... and no.

Unless you're using only known-good parts (proven to already fit) it can all go wrong if your seats, axle, differential, engine, pedals, steering rack, or transmission don't fit a frame already built.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

I don't know that this will get me anywhere, but I thought I would send a note to both my state senator and state representative (had to look them up, had no idea who they were!) Below is the text;



If I get a response I will post it. Until then, I will keep on researching. . .

Awesome; mind if I borrow/paraphrase your letter in writing to my own state congressmen as well? I think the more visibility we bring to the DMV's hack job, the more luck we'll have!

Fred

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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.

Fred -

Cut and paste away! I will have to admit a shocking ignorance on the Texas Legislature - I know they only convene every other year and I have no idea where we are in the cycle now. What happens in an "off" year?

- Robert

Thanks! I'm not really familiar with how the state legislature works here either, having just moved here a few months ago. I've contacted both my state senator and state representative, so we'll see what comes of it!

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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.

You are in for a wait. Legislature ended last month and has now concluded its two year cycle.

The mean IQ of Austin increased as the elected officials returned to their respective counties.

Haha, sounds about right. Reminds me of this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/poll-majority-of-americans-approve-of-sending-cong,33752/

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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.

Hey guys,

I'm trying to start a build here in Sugarland also. Would like to know how many other sugarland builders are around. The biggest issue whether to start or not would be this registration hurdle everyone is facing. I would be willing to apply for a commercial license of some type to certify these frames so we can somehow legally meet the requirements. I'm thinking if we get enough people together, we can figure a way around it.

If you can get enough people together, you can petition your legislators to change that law. Don't just think of Locost guys, think of the whole car-building hobby community. Cobra guys, Buggy guys, reverse trike guys, custom 1-off guys et.al. There is strength in numbers.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

I don't think the problem is our legislators. It looks more like the way TX DMV is interpreting the law. I don't plan to take more than 6 months to build mine and in that short amount of time, I don't think we can change how the DMV looks at things. From my past experience, it's easier to just to make your paper work fit what they think is "safe" and "legal". Sometimes what they think doesn't make sense but most of the employees there really don't want to think. They just want to follow guidelines blindly. They say they don't allow "homemade" vehicles. Just say it was built in a shop. I consider my garage a shop ... lol.

Btw .. the way it is written, it only affects the Locost guys. The rules does allow for custom vehicles, replicas , etc .. as long as the frame is made by a manufacturer and then assembled at home. It specifically allows "assembled" vehicles because they believed the frame is engineered.

The trick is to show that your build qualifies for the "replica" case. They allow replica because they think that replicas are exactly built like the originals so have already been engineered. So you just need to show that what you built exist out there and has been proven to be safe to drive. Not saying that it would work at all DMV but that's what I'm gonna try.

So good news / bad news. The good news, I wrote to my representative and actually got a response! A polite response that shows the Rep. Miller and his staff took more than two seconds to think about the question. The civic minded part of me is very impressed by this and I do think it's very cool. The bad news is that even the representative is stuck on the "manufactured prefabricated" language for the chassis which means that all of us, the Manx crowd, the trike guys, etc. are still frakked. I wrote a thank you note to Mr. Miller for his diligent response that noted that I was disappointed in the answer and that "manufactured prefabricated" is not a phrase used in the legislation, but still highly appreciative of his efforts. I don't know if repr. around the state will be as responsive (still haven't heard from my state senator) but I would encourage folks to write in. Letter shown below if I can get the files to attach properly

Van - apologies for not replying to your email. Busy couple of weeks at work and back at the house. I don't have a good sense of the best path forward at this point. Reading around the forum it seems the chassis build is actually a pretty small part of the overall build process. I have read a couple of posters state the main purpose of welding your own frame seems to be to get proficient enough at welding so you are ready for the rest of the build! Plus, it is a cost savings given that pre-welded frames seems to range around $3000 - $9000. Maybe I should wait to save up the funds to buy a Brunton style chassis - don't have a good sense if that's the way I want to go.

Given that 2000 hours seems like an appropriate estimate for how long a build takes to complete, and that 500 hours a year seems like a best case for a nights and weekends build, do we start our builds and work in the intervening four years to get the law changed? Do we wait the two years it is going to take for the Texas legislature to come back in session and maybe possibly hopefully take up this law and get it fixed? Do I shift my attention to fixing up a Miata or retromodding an old Willys Jeep? (my next two favorite "cars projects I would like to tackle")

Anyway, lots to think about. . .