LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently October 17, 2018, 10:53 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: June 5, 2016, 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3645
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
classic conversions wrote:
. . . <SNIP> . . .

In my plan I have decided to go with a 4 link with angle links, thus eliminating the panhard rod.
I found a very nice Miter saw Evolution RAGE it cuts metal, tile and wood with the same blade.
Collecting the right tools for the project, any ideas ?


I looked at that same saw and was impressed by it's abilities as shown in the online product videos. However, I got lucky and found a very nice, used, Taiwan-built, band saw marketed by Grizzly for $500. It's variable speed and has a digital readout, so it's easy to use. The down sides are: 1) it's physically big; and 2) runs on 220V. That said, I'm glad I have it because you can do so much more with it (including wood, but I wouldn't do tile) versus the Evolution Rage. It took me a while to find it as most of the comparable, American-made saws (like Do All and similar) are around $2,000 used, which was out of budget for me at that time.

You actually can cut almost all the chassis pieces by hand with a hacksaw if you want. The flat plate is a bit of an issue, though. Cut tubes a little larger (like 1/32", 1/16") and finish by hand with files or a grinder and you can get beautiful joints with excellent fit-up. I did some parts of my own chassis my hand.

I did start out with a chop saw (abrasive wheel saw), however. I didn't like it. It essentially melts the steel and leaves a very sloppy cut IMHO. You have all the final finish issues that you get with a hacksaw, but it's very messy. Definitely wear a paper welding mask. The cheap Home Depot type dusk masks are pretty useless, IMHO.

Next up for me was a Harbor Freight portable band saw. Some guys have done clever things that turn them into fixed saws with a small work table. That's the way to go if you decide on this approach. Held by hand, it's easy to go wrong with the direction of the cut. Having to hold the tool obscures the visibility, I found.

I ended up with the bandsaw mentioned at top. I'll be doing many projects over the years, so I consider its cost will be "amortized" over a lot of different work.

I look forward to your build. It should be interesting. I'm a V6 "sinner" too. I've had several turbo-charged I4s over the years. I'd definitely consider a modern version like the Ford Eco-Boost or GM turbos. But, I tell you, I would love to have a RWD version of the Chrysler 3.6L, DOHC V6 in our Dodge Gran Caravan. It's a 60-degree V6, very compact and light, and revs like crazy. You get 283HP and 260 lb-ft of torque even in mini-van tune, and it loves to be turbocharged. :mrgreen:

Everyone's expectations for their Locost are different. I was looking for something along the lines of one that performs like these two cars (Caterham and Stryker). Both are I4s incidentally, but not your typical, under-powered, 1500CC 4-bangers.

Cheers,

1) Caterham/Duratec ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAwNfgvF_Ww

2) Stryker/S2000 ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDMukessQtk

Cheers,

P.S. The 4-link is do-able, but you'll have some packaging issues to deal with. The upper links will want to attach to your seatback structure and you'll need to consider that and watch out for overly short (8" or less) links. 3-links with the upper link going to the top of the transmission tunnel area have been done too.

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 12, 2016, 1:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: May 24, 2016, 7:38 pm
Posts: 16
Thanks for the tips on the tools. I have own a FEMI blade chop saw and can be also converted to a bench saw. It is made in Italy and very accurate. Own it for 6 years, great tool.

Well... started the project by writing the plan. Will formulate a web page to post progress.
Will keep updated and hopefully the members on this forum can visit and share ideas. I am an open mind person.
One thing on the plan that is a most do, is to gusset key areas of the chassis. Using a 306 ci Ford.
What is the normal ride high of the Lotus 7?

I will also change the angle of the front shocks. Is there a reason why the front shocks have a radical lean?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 12, 2016, 2:48 pm 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 5723
GC is whatever you want it to be based on your inner pivot attachment points on the frame and tire size. I think most shoot for around 5-6 inches for street use, similar to mg and triumph.

Some reasons for the angle are the uca design, trying to put the lower coilover attachment as far out as practical for lca strength, and not wanting the upper coilover attachment to stick out of the body, and the use of short travel/high spring rate bike coilovers.

_________________
MV8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 12:38 am 
Offline

Joined: August 14, 2006, 1:15 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Burbs of Detroit
classic conversions wrote:
...

I will also change the angle of the front shocks. Is there a reason why the front shocks have a radical lean?



Hi Bill- know you from the MGExp.

Shock lean is most probably a result trying to minimize the motion ratio. In a perfect world, the shock would be near vertical out by the wheel, but then the structure to support the top of the shock would be either ungainly or flimsy.You wantthe bottom of the shock as far outboard as you can, so any wheel motion causes the maximum shock stroke.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 11:39 am 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Posts: 7551
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Will formulate a web page to post progress.
Will keep updated and hopefully the members on this forum can visit and share ideas. I am an open mind person.


You will get some visits I'm sure, but I would encourage you to keep us up to date here also. There are several reasons, but for you as a business owner, you will get much more attention from things like google search engine if you are active both places. You can even just duplicate posts and pictures to some degree.

In the same vein putting your website and some comments about it in your signature on this forum will help too. We don't allow blatant advertising, but doing a build and contributing here more than makes up for a little spreading the word on your part.

There is no harm in gusseting, but also consider making your frame rails out of 1.25" tube. That provides a huge step in sturdiness, about a factor of 2 in stiffness.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 18, 2016, 10:01 am 
Offline

Joined: April 15, 2014, 1:54 pm
Posts: 397
"but also consider making your frame rails out of 1.25" tube. That provides a huge step in sturdiness, about a factor of 2 in stiffness." x2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 18, 2016, 1:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: April 15, 2014, 1:54 pm
Posts: 397
I bumped up the tube size in generic locost in the chassis rigidity post from 1x1 to 1.25x1.25 and chassis torsional rigidity went from 2100 ft lb per degree to 3200 ft lb per degree. Total steel weight went from 160 lb to 200 lb.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 24, 2016, 12:31 am 
Offline

Joined: May 24, 2016, 7:38 pm
Posts: 16
Great points !! Weight is not an issue so...good point on the 1.25 tubing.

Yes will keep everyone inform of the progress.

right now I have collected a good miter saw, I have other tools on hand.

Right now, making room for the project. I have another project that I will sharing time with. Well.... I have 4 projects including the Lotus project.

I work two weeks on one project, what ever time I have on those two weeks is spent on one particular project. So... every 8 weeks I return to the first etc....

Once I learn how to post pictures here I will share the progress.


Attachments:
IMG_1988.jpg
IMG_1988.jpg [ 1.9 MiB | Viewed 2425 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 24, 2016, 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 20, 2010, 7:56 pm
Posts: 470
Location: Warrenton, Virginia
Welcome Bill!
I'll be following this build to see how a person with your background approaches " a true four link" and the occasional picture of the GT would be most welcome. (I picked up a 1967 last month.) If the angled front shocks don't sit right with you, go with a bell crank set-up! It works for the Caterhams. How is this "7" going to be driven? Street,..Autocross,..Track..?
Ron

_________________
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 3, 2016, 12:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: May 24, 2016, 7:38 pm
Posts: 16
Good question. The Lotus 8 will be used as a street toy and occasional track use such as SOLO II and hot laps.
Will have fun with this project, building and driving. Lots of Cobra kits around here so...it will be fun.

This project can be done with a low roll center, so the angle arms can be in the bottom and the uprights rods install in the normal position as the 5 link (including the panhard rod) this will give a low roll center.
The front design it appears to have a low roll center also.

Will be using Willwood spindles with the Willwoods front brake kit. The front hubs I will use our new aluminum MGB dual 4 bolt pattern hub. Reason is that I have a set of Panasports wheels with 4 on 113. The hubs also have a pattern for the popular 4 on 100 mm bolt pattern.

Rear axle will be GM 7.5 with Willwood brake kit and axle drill to 4 on 113 (4.5") Not sure about axle width.

I find this forum very helpful. Thank you for the replies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 23, 2016, 7:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 18, 2016, 12:39 am
Posts: 121
Trochu wrote:
I don't think all those engines will fit, I'd likely just go with one of them.

Good luck.


Might fit a second one in the trunk? :P


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 23, 2016, 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 18, 2016, 12:39 am
Posts: 121
classic conversions wrote:
Will be using Willwood spindles with the Willwoods front brake kit. The front hubs I will use our new aluminum MGB dual 4 bolt pattern hub. Reason is that I have a set of Panasports wheels with 4 on 113. The hubs also have a pattern for the popular 4 on 100 mm bolt pattern.

Rear axle will be GM 7.5 with Willwood brake kit and axle drill to 4 on 113 (4.5") Not sure about axle width.


When I was doing an '83 RX-7, I started with a '94 S-Blazer 4x4 axlehousing, and a pair of pre-'94 Mustang 4-lug 28-spline shafts, I think they were both driver-side, IIRC, with the 28-spline limited slip differential out of a '95 Z28. It all goes together, and the Ford shafts are slightly stronger in torque capacity, but slightly harder to drill. The only reason to use the GM axle over a Ford 7.5 or 8.8 is if you need an axle ratio in the low 2s. I was using 2.29:1. There were 2.26s that go in the Ford 8.8, but they're rare and costly. Bonneville land speed record car guys pay huge for them. So, GM 7.5/7.625": 2.14:1, 2.29:1, 2.41:1, 2.56:1, 2.73:1, 2.93:1, 3.08:1, 3.23:1, 3.42:1, 3.73:1, 3.91:1, 4.10:1, 4.30:1, 4.56:1. Ford 7.5": 2.73:1, 3.08:1, 3.27:1, 3.45:1, 3.73:1, 4.10:1, 4.56:1. Ford 8.8": 2.26:1, 2,47:1, 2.73:1, 3.08:1, 3.15:1, 3.27:1, 3.31:1, 3.55:1, 3.73:1, 3.89:1, 3.90:1, 3.91:1, 4.09:1, 4.10:1, 4.11:1, 4.30:1, 4.33:1, 4.56:1, 4.88:1, 5.13:1, 5.71:1, and maybe something around 5.38:1.

Better to get stronger front hubs, sell yours, and go 5-lug.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 9, 2017, 1:37 am 
Offline

Joined: May 24, 2016, 7:38 pm
Posts: 16
Well...have not posted in a while. I have made some changes, the V8 is out. You are correct, a big lump at front.

I have chosen the 2.0 EcoBoost with Ford Performance harness and ECU which it will yield a 360 lb of torque.
The engine weight a mere 325 lbs and the Miata 6 speed bolts up to the engine. Mazda and Ford share the same engines Duratec and EcoBoost.

I have ordered the steel to start the frame, hope to have the basic frame by May. Will post pictures.

Have in mind to make some mods to the chassis. Will extend the bottom portion of the rear to incline the rear similar to a Morgan and raise the rear by another 3-4 inches and add a spare tire.

Phase 1 basic chassis by May 2017 Second Phase suspension and engine mounts etc. by August 2017. Will plan for the rest.


Attachments:
DSCN0985.JPG
DSCN0985.JPG [ 1009.43 KiB | Viewed 1983 times ]
DSCN0989.JPG
DSCN0989.JPG [ 1010.13 KiB | Viewed 1983 times ]
DSCN0994.JPG
DSCN0994.JPG [ 1001.68 KiB | Viewed 1983 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 9, 2017, 8:47 am 
Offline

Joined: August 31, 2015, 2:24 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Delaware
nice choice, and nice cars. Ford also sells a north/south kit for these engines but I think the oil pan ends up being pretty deep. The coolant pipes to get out to the front are 2.3L Mustang Coolant output elbow - FR3Z8K556A and 2.3L Mustang Coolant hose - FR3Z8592B


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 9, 2017, 11:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3645
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
Nice! I don't think anyone has used an Ecoboost I4 yet. It should be a screamer.

I like you toy box and toys too!

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY