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PostPosted: November 16, 2019, 10:48 pm 
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Hey gents! Just wanted to say I've lurked LocostUSA for a few years, loved the non-traditional subforum, and finally got around to making an account. Never thought I'd actually have a project worth posting here, but maybe I do. Super, super excited to get started on it!

I'm picking up a '69 Subaru 360 sedan next weekend hopefully, and I have big, big plans for it. I'll have more pictures when I can go back to get it from the farm it's on, my phone died along with a lot of pictures.

Image

If you haven't had the chance to see a Subaru 360 before, they're a tiny Kei car that had a 357cc 2 cylinder, 2 stroke engine that was rear engine'd and generally terrifying to ride in. Very cute, though.

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My current goal is actually four or five of my long time goals: owning a Kei car (difficult in California), a rear engine vehicle, a rotary powered car, a WWII Japanese aeronautic themed vehicle (this is either going to be themed as a Nakajima A6M or a Kawanishi N1K-J Shiden), and to have the first Subaru to run Hotrod Magazine's Drag Week.


To break it down, (if it and I fit in the car) I plan to use a Mazda 12A or 13B rotary, mounted to a VW Passat B5's 012 5 speed longitudinal transaxle, with a rear tube chassis setup tying into a NHRA legal 8.50 cage, and a suspension setup that is as of right now undecided. End goal is an eventual turbo 13B and 10.0 quarter mile times, but that's a looooong way away. I have a lot more lurking, reading, and calls to Kennedy Engineering to make before I have everything settled.

The other huge goal is to make this car as much plane as it is car, if that makes sense. I'm a big WWII aviation nerd, and I've always loved the Japanese aircraft of the era and design language. As such, whenever it's feasible or prudent, I'll be trying to incorporate as many aircraft construction techniques and features as possible (hand formed aluminum flares, flush rivets, safety wire, lightening holes, reproduction gauges, appropriate paints/primers, etc), and an interior and exterior themed for whatever aircraft and specific airframe I decide to emulate.

So far, I'm thinking Nakashima Ki-44

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Or possibly a Kawanashi N1K-J Shiden Kai, "Violet Lightning"

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I'm a welder by vocation, raced three of Hotrod's Drag Week events, and a Datsun fanatic. The goal is Drag Week 2021, roughly 20 months away. I've sold off some project cars for time and space for this, I'm making a build table, I've got a concrete pad in my backyard dedicated for it, and weekends and evenings.

This thread will be updated with the progress, and loads of questions for suspension, as that's my haziest, most unknown portion of this build. Can't wait to post more!


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PostPosted: November 17, 2019, 10:35 am 
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Look forward to seeing your progress on this, a rotary kei car will be fun :D
Is there space for a 2 rotor or will it be single?


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PostPosted: November 17, 2019, 11:06 am 
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Very ambitious! I look forward to following your efforts.

Another build you may already know about:
http://www.roadkill.com/cute-bike-power ... ants-kill/

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PostPosted: November 17, 2019, 5:12 pm 
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LC10W wrote:
Look forward to seeing your progress on this, a rotary kei car will be fun :D
Is there space for a 2 rotor or will it be single?

I hope it will be fun, if not I'll have failed :lol:
A 13B or 12A are two-rotor engines, but the idea of the 50hp Aixro single rotor go kart engine diiiid cross my mind for a quick second. Then reality set in.

Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Very ambitious! I look forward to following your efforts.

Another build you may already know about:
http://www.roadkill.com/cute-bike-power ... ants-kill/


Thanks! Yep, I've paid a bunch of attention to Brian's car, the Firebug is nuts! My only issues with it are that it's far too junkyard for me, and very, uh, sketchy. At least too sketchy for me in the safety department (he drove it to 110mph with two seized brake calipers for instance, no bueno for me).

Plus, the uprights he used (Geo Metro bits), suspension (also Geo) and his steering rack widened the car by almost a foot. Which, for me is a little bit of a bummer, since another goal of this build is to build a mini truck (Mitsubishi Mighty Max) alongside this thing into a flat bed car carrier (themed as a bomber, hah!) to carry this thing to the east coast for the race. I've driven my Civic to the east coast twice so far with no radio, A/C, and a straight pipe, and I am getting too old for that.


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PostPosted: November 17, 2019, 5:54 pm 
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Are you going to stretch the wheelbase? It looks like you will need at least a couple feet between the seat and the rear axle for the 13b plus the block adapter thickness. A 13b and block adapter is about the same length as a gm v6-60.

I've seen an eagle talon drivetrain in a back-halved 360 on youtube (2stroketurbo's page).

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PostPosted: November 17, 2019, 6:41 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Are you going to stretch the wheelbase? It looks like you will need at least a couple feet between the seat and the rear axle for the 13b plus the block adapter thickness. A 13b and block adapter is about the same length as a gm v6-60.

I've seen an eagle talon drivetrain in a back-halved 360 on youtube (2stroketurbo's page).


I'm going to attempt to not stretch the wheelbase, but I am going to attempt to push the seating position forward and move the front bulkhead *over* the steering rack to give myself some more leg room. I don't need a front trunk, so I have no qualms sacrificing that. I'm also going to be making my own minimalistic/aircraft themed dash, which should give me some more space there as well.

Current measurements off of the blueprint below give me juuuuuust enough room to squeeze in I think, with the center of the output hub on the transaxle being so close to the engine itself, and there being substantial space from the center of the rear wheel to the back of the car, I think I can have the engine set very rearward, so sacrificing the rear seats and installing a dog house style firewall should be a feasible option.

I will only need to add a hump to the engine inspection lid to have the transaxle sit clearly according to what measurements I have right now.

Here's the VW 012

Image


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PostPosted: November 17, 2019, 10:18 pm 
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Would it be easier to make it a front engine rear drive since you making a frame anyway? If it's going to look anything like the Roadkill one I'm in love!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: November 19, 2019, 9:54 am 
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If you need it, I have the bellhousing pattern info for an S5-NA 13B floating around.

Although I think you can get the adapters pre-made for most VW applications, thanks to the hotrod beatle crowd.

A Subaru doing the right kind of BRAP BRAP is going to be a beautiful thing. :twisted:

As far as mightymax stuff, check out the Hotrodcoffeeshop.com forums.
There's a wealth of info over there on the platform, and the 4G63T swap.


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PostPosted: November 19, 2019, 3:47 pm 
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300D50 wrote:
If you need it, I have the bellhousing pattern info for an S5-NA 13B floating around.

Although I think you can get the adapters pre-made for most VW applications, thanks to the hotrod beatle crowd.



Well, sadly this isn't for a VW beetle transaxle, this is for the 012, the Passat B5's longitudinally mounted, FWD transaxle, and it has the same bellhousing pattern as the Audi 01E or 016.

So, if you *do* happen to have the bellhousing pattern laying around I'd definitely be interested! If not I might have to shell out the copious amount of money ( :( )to Kennedy Engineering to make me a custom one


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PostPosted: November 19, 2019, 7:58 pm 
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Is this what you are looking for?

Might not have to run such a large cv angle in the overhead view if you go with a rear engine transaxle, like a vw bus 4 spd. Very strong, cheap, and deeply geared for a rotary. There is also the porsche option or special reverse cut subbie r&p option for vw installations.


Attachments:
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PostPosted: November 19, 2019, 8:13 pm 
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I'll dig around my CAD stuff, I pulled the points when I made my adapter plate.

Have you got the automatic rear counterweight for your engine yet?

EDIT: This isn't my copy, but it's an S4 TII iron. Not sure if accurate or anything.
Attachment:
iron-geometry.JPG
iron-geometry.JPG [ 136.09 KiB | Viewed 2070 times ]


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PostPosted: November 20, 2019, 5:16 am 
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I had considered the combination you're proposing, but shelved it because the 12A/13B NA flywheel has a radius of 149mm. Look into modifying the rotary automatic counterweight to accept an Audi flywheel.


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PostPosted: November 20, 2019, 11:03 pm 
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I did some preliminary CAD for the Porsche/VW pattern (I hoard them, you never know...) and for giggles overlayed it on the 13B pattern.

Attachment:
Mock.png
Mock.png [ 293.38 KiB | Viewed 1985 times ]


Seems it will fit nicely, very little overlap. Arrows are Mazda holes.

A 18x18 piece of stock should work.

One funny thing, the pattern I posted seems to be of someone making an adapter for this trans+engine combo, because it matches...

If you want I could work out a quote to mill a plate, and maybe turn a flywheel adapter.


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PostPosted: November 22, 2019, 4:22 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Is this what you are looking for?

Might not have to run such a large cv angle in the overhead view if you go with a rear engine transaxle, like a vw bus 4 spd. Very strong, cheap, and deeply geared for a rotary. There is also the porsche option or special reverse cut subbie r&p option for vw installations.

Yes, thank you!

The goal is hopefully a dang near neutral CV angle, I plan to push the transaxle waaaaay back, back far enough to line the output from the transaxle with the center of the rear hub. Frankly, it might be through the back of the engine cover and that might have it be exposed, but c'est la vie

But, I haven't heard anything about the reverse cut rack and pinion on the Subaru 2WD transmissions, that's very interesting, thanks for the tip. I'm definitely not married to the idea of the Passat transaxle, although it was definitely convenient with the budget and junk yard parts availability.

300D50 wrote:
I'll dig around my CAD stuff, I pulled the points when I made my adapter plate.

Have you got the automatic rear counterweight for your engine yet?

EDIT: This isn't my copy, but it's an S4 TII iron. Not sure if accurate or anything.
Attachment:
iron-geometry.JPG


Thanks a ton! As for the rear counterweight, no not yet, but I'm on the hunt for a good deal on one.
Also, with the situation of the budget (meager at best, broke college student for the time being), I'd hate for you to invest time in something that I can't purchase immediately, but thank you for the offer regarding the adapter and plate! I might be hitting you up for it later, who knows.


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PostPosted: November 22, 2019, 9:02 am 
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It looks like you have a little less than 420 mm / 16 inches between the axle center and the seat back.
For the axle center to line up, you need around 761 mm / 30 inches.
A rear engine transaxle will be shorter and below the seat back.

The reverse cut gears are very expensive:
http://subarugears.com/

Late 70s vw bus trans is the one to get (091):
https://ratwell.com/technical/Transaxle.html#091

Should be much cheaper to go bec or back-half a fwd car drivetrain like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSicuaj4hHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3s1DMdVskA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzK9uIIbjqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ_fM4gLLNw


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DatL24 1.JPG
DatL24 1.JPG [ 68.73 KiB | Viewed 1882 times ]

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