Pete's Porsche/VW Based Build

[Dave]

I'd agree that it probably is the best engine choice - I've thought about going for one before but not sure if I need the extra jobs of mucking around with the rwd engine conversion. The only bad side I can think of is that the Samari tranny doesn't have great gear ratios for a sports car. Not sure if alternate ratios are avaliable.

[Pete Gossett]

Thanks for the tips, my future-father-in-law now owns the Sidekick, so there's still a chance I could get it in the future.

My welder was delivered last night, so I'll have to get it setup this weekend & try it out!

[Pete Gossett]

Finished up the first phase of this project today, the remnants of the 924 got sawed up & loaded into my pickup for recycling today. Now that the dust has settled & been swept up, here's what I have to work with so far:

What I *can* use from the 924

- Steering wheel, column, rack & tie-rods
- Front uprights(need to fab upper balljoint mount)
- Front hubs, rotors & calipers
- Full set of VDO gauges
- Wiring harness & fuse box to pick apart
- E-brake handle
- Pedal assembly & master cylinder
- Radiator & dual-fans/shroud
- 5-lightweight 14" wheels
- Rearview mirrors
- Enough recycled sheet metal to do the floors, firewall & rear bulkhead
- Wiper motor & linkage
- A jug full of assorted fasteners
- About $13 in change


What I *might* be able to use from the 924

- Torque-tube & rear mount transmission
- Rear axels
- Rear brakes/hubs


I also have a friend who's letting me pull whatever I want from his 83 GTI

- Good running 1.8L engine
- Blown transmission(might be able to cut/weld the case to mate up w/the 924 torque tube)
- Possibly the front uprights, hubs, rotors, brakes & outer CV's(to adapt disk brakes to the IRS)


The next step - after I get a chance to haul off the 924 scrap - is to pick up the 4x8 mdf and get my build table built. I also need to go pickup the GTI motor & see how difficult it will be to make work w/the 924 setup. I checked one steel supply shop last week & was quoted $18.95 for a 20' length of 1x1 16ga, still need to check the other places.

[chetcpo]

Congrats on your progress. That price sounds pretty good for the steel. Thanks for the update.

[calvin]

I think you need a better steel place. I am taking a second gen RX7 shell on Tuesday, and historically I hve gotten much more than that.

[Pete Gossett]

That was the price for the new 1x1 tubing for the build...the local scrapyard said $75/ton is what they'll pay me for the 924 - unfortunately they don't sell from the scrapyard.

[Pete Gossett]

Did you know....


...the shell from a '77 924 weighs just over 700lbs & was worth $26.25 at my local scrapyard?

Which is great - since I just spent $24.99 on wood for my build table.

[Pete Gossett]

I got home from work a bit early yesterday & found my tubing had been delivered so I got right to work. I spent about 4-hours last night & another 4 this morning & made it this far. My welding still needs *a lot* of work, but what better practice than tacking together a chassis. Honestly, it went quicker than expected/ Another 8-12 hours & the main chassis should be all cut & tacked....but it will take a bit of re-engineering to figure out how to attatch the 924 transmission & IRS to the back.


I started w/a jig for the rear uprights & boxed in the assembly afterward.




Here's a shot of my crappy welding.




Next, I jigged & built the LA/B/C/D assembly - wasn't too bad. I set my compound miter saw as close to the angles as I could get it & just filed to fit.




I somehow managed to get it square on the first try, must be beginner's luck!







Not bad for basically a day's work.




Tomorrow I'm going to pick up my donor engine - and probably some other bits - from my friends GTI. Then it's engineering/design time again!

[derf]

If you want to work on your welding, and you have the chassis tacked together, take the leftover tubes that you dont see yourself using, and cut them into 1/2" section, then just practice welding them back together. you can get lots of practise off just a 1 foot piece of scrap.

You could also use those little pieces to get your welder setting right. And once your welder is set, write down the settings so if you need to go back to the frame you can just set it and go.

From the 1 closeup of your weld it doesnt look too bad. You might want to grind that down to see how it went, and if you can do with wasting that pice even cut through it completely to see what kind of penetration you got. If anything I would say slow your wire speed down a bit as it looks like you might have it set a bit fast and it doesnt have enough time to pool up and melt in to the tube, instead it just sets in on top in a sorta slug-ish fasion.

the best way to check though is to cut it open and see how deep it went.


I would also wait to fully weld the chassis until after it is fully tacked. It might be a little easier (and very tempting) to weld just the bottom up then add pieces as you go, but you will get more heat distortion this way. If you have the whole chassis tacked together it will help hold it in place and keep it from shifting, especially the upper sections..

[Pete Gossett]

Thanks for the tips, I'll try slowing the wire speed a bit & see how it works. I did have a problem w/poor groudning on my first few welds - an old set of jumper cables helped out though.

With a makeshift *jig* of sorts by using the 1"x2" blocks, and clamping all the tubes down until after they had cooled, I checked the distortion & I'm off about 1/32" diagonally.

Right now, I'm planning on welding the 4 vertical pieces to the bottom of the chassis, then removing it from the table, re-jigging for the upper rails & cross-members, then after they're assembled, invert the bottom of the chassis onto it for final assembly.

[mr.peabody.d]

Wire brush those welds alittle and make sure you are getting proper penatration around the weld. (blueish area around the weld)

[derf]

to do the upper frame rails I used a hole saw to cut holes in my table, then used large wood clamps (ones that open up a few feet) and a bunch of 90 degree clamps to hold everything square and down on the table. It worked well. I also used some spare pieces and tacked on supports for the finish welding. I would suggest leaving the chassis in the jig as long as you can.

I did meet a builder a while back (I think in late '02) who fully welded the chassis as he went along, he said that when he pulled it out of the jig for the first time it sprung to the side about 3/4", he actually heard the metal pop.

Any distortion you have should be able to be fixed when you do the suspension.

I found it useful to write notes with a sharpie right on the table, it helped me keep my thoughts in order, epecially which order I welded everthing together, which weld I though were good and bad, which needed to be ground out and re-welded, etc... by the time I finished with my table it looked like a piece of art.

As far as your blocks, I had 2 sets (4 total, or more) of blocks supporting each tube as I found that they did move a little inside the blocks. The wood actually moved and in a few places. especially in the front where I didnt cut the angles of the tubes perfectly.

[Pete Gossett]

Finished off the weekend by making a quick road-trip to Lafayette, In to grab some free parts.

Here's the sacrifical victim(no, not my friend Neil...not yet, anyway - just the dub).




Luckilly, the drivetrain had already been removed by the p/o.




....and had been placed inside the hatch. It's light enough there was no problem for the 2 of us to lift the engine out & walk it over to the bed of my pickup - Just guessing, I'd say it's under 175lbs. It's compact too, at only 16" long.




I still haven't unloaded it from the truck, but I did take the 924 bellhousing & see how it lined up. 2 bolt holes directly across from each other are a perfect match - which is really all I need, since the engine/bellhousing/torque-tube/trans will all be incorporated into the frame as structural members. Unfortunately, the clutch uses an odd pressure-plate that releases via a concentric shaft running inside the input shaft of the trans, so I need to try to adapt the 924 clutch assembly to the GTI engine.


Welded up a few more bits on the frame tonight - thanks for the tips about slowing my wire speed, the penetration seems much better!

[Andy Bro]

I am very interested in how you use this drivetrain. I love watercooled VWs, and I can vouch for the lightness of the engine. My dad and I lifted up the old 8v from my GTi and thru it in the trunk of the Jetta I was junking. It probably wasn't more than 200 lbs.

One thing you may consider is a kit from a place called Acme adapters. There are a few other companies out there too, but what they make is an adapter kit to mount any watercooled 4 cylinder (not the 1.8ts though), to a Suzuki Samurai (Geo tracker, any of those same vehicals), or a Toyota R22 transmission. People take the VW turbo diesel's and put them into their Sammys.

[Andy Bro]

Oh, I just thought of some other things for your build to use with that engine. First, it may be beneficial to use the oil filter flange from a Fox. They match up, but the Fox's is turned sideways, so as to give more frame/motor mount clearance. You also may want the front motor mount from a Fox, to adapt for your chassis.

Those companies I mentioned earlier have pressure plates for sale, but I'd venture a guess they modify another pressure plate and adapt it to the VW crank. If you make an adapter plate for the 924 tranny, and can get all of that sorted out, that is probably the route I will follow for my own locost.

One last thing, my dad dug up, somehow, info on a company in the old Soviet block countries who are making locosts using watercooled VWs and Lada trannys, just an interesting tid-bit.