Suzuki GT Powered build

DavidFE · Post by **DavidFE** » August 11, 2006, 3:01 pm

Suzuki Tech: Transmissions – Length and Weight

- JI 5 speed (Sidekick, Tracker, Vitara (old) 2WD) [25.5", 77lb]

- SJ-413(NA Spec)/Samurai/Sierra 5 speed [20.5", 65lb]

HTH

These are RWD and will work with the 1300 DOHC.

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 13, 2006, 10:25 am

My build is delayed because my steel order is delayed until the 22nd. But I leave for Europe for a week on Tuesday anyway, so I will build the frame when I get back.

I did get the spindles, can anyone tell me how to get proper geometry with these? Longer lower balljoint?

Rusty on the left, derusted using electrolysis on the right

OzGecko · Post by **OzGecko** » August 13, 2006, 6:42 pm

I'll assume those are Chevette uprights (although the caliper brackets are completely different to what we got on our local equivalent, the Holden Gemini). I have a spreadsheet that I used to calculate pivot positions for my Gemini uprights on my mid-engined chassis. Changes to pivot positions on a Locost chassis will depend on a few factors:
- what ride height you expect (ie ground clearance below the bottom rail)
- what tyre/wheel combo (I'm using 205/55-15 mostly because that's the size of the 4x100 wheels I scored cheap)
- what width your chassis is ('book' width, +4, etc)

The short answer is that you'll come pretty close if you raise all of the chassis pivots by 25mm (1"). But have a good hard look at the diagram that shows the chassis brackets from the front on (I don't have the book here so I can't quote a page number). You'll see that the upright of the L-assembly and the tube behind it (FU1?) cross each other at the right point so that both top wishbone brackets align. The angle of the L tube needs to change to make that cross-over point be about an inch higher.

Let me know if this isn't clear and I'll dig up the actual page and diagram number. You're welcome to a copy of my spreadhseet too, although it would take a little tweaking for a Locost chassis (and it's 100% metric).

Hope this helps,

Dominic

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 13, 2006, 8:00 pm

Book chassis, tires will be 195/60-14, I don't know about ride height, 6.5" on street tires, 5" on 20" race tires? That sounds like a good compromise. So I would be keeping the book control arm dimensions and just raising the pivot points up 25mm? the FU tubes are 90 degree tubes so all I would have to do is move them back slightly right? Then what do I do with the pivot that attaches to the bottom tube, just build a 1" tall box and tie it into the FU tubes? Thanbks

OzGecko · Post by **OzGecko** » August 14, 2006, 9:26 am

I would leave the FU tubes where they are and change the angle of the LA & LB tubes to align the brackets. The L-assembly is already an odd shape for exactly this reason - you just have to change it to a different odd shape

My calcs were done on a 125mm (5") ride height and I ended up with my bottom rear pivot perched on a 50mm packer. If you're looking at a ride height closer to 6" (150mm) then a 25mm packer should do the job nicely. The rolling radius of that wheel/tyre combo is about 10mm less than mine so not much difference.

Hope this helps,

Dominic

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 14, 2006, 9:39 am

Here is a running weight total so far...

Actual weights:
Engine+harness - 205
Rear axle+brakes - 114
wheels+tires - 104
Transmission+starter - 70
Spindles+hub - 42
Coilovers - 24
Pedals+steering column - 12
Radiator+fan - 10
Total so far - 572lbs

So if the frame with mods is estimated at 150lbs that leaves me with a total so far of 722lbs, leaving me 478lbs left over to reach my dry total of 1100lbs. I still have to weigh control arms, bodywork, windshield, dash, front calipers, rack, rollbar, driveshaft, and wiring (I'm still working on the harness, but it shouldn't weigh more than 20lbs) I think it may be possible to be closer to 1000lbs, think that can be done? I may add a few pounds to the chassis as I will be reinforcing the suspension mounting points, I will be autocrossing and tracking this car.

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 14, 2006, 9:41 am

OzGecko wrote:I would leave the FU tubes where they are and change the angle of the LA & LB tubes to align the brackets. The L-assembly is already an odd shape for exactly this reason - you just have to change it to a different odd shape

My calcs were done on a 125mm (5") ride height and I ended up with my bottom rear pivot perched on a 50mm packer. If you're looking at a ride height closer to 6" (150mm) then a 25mm packer should do the job nicely. The rolling radius of that wheel/tyre combo is about 10mm less than mine so not much difference.

Hope this helps,

Dominic

Yes that helps a lot, thanks very much. What balljoints should I be using?

OzGecko · Post by **OzGecko** » August 14, 2006, 7:17 pm

Balljoints - you have a few options. In Australia, we'd use a BJ54 as the lower because it's a bolt on joint rather than the press-in Chevette original. I don't know if there's a North American equivalent to the BJ54 - it's a top balljoint for a number of larger '70s GMH sedans.

For the top balljoint in Chevette uprights there appears to be two options if you want a tie-rod end solution as used in 'The Book'. There's the TE471R which I believe is a LandCruiser part. Or I've also been told that a TE402R will work although it's quite a bit lighter (ie 14mm shank as opposed to 17mm).

Hope this helps,

Dominic

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 14, 2006, 9:10 pm

Looks like BJ54 is superceded by Moog K5108, upper joint on 60's musclecars, looks like a winner. I understand the Chevette tie rod end will also work on the upper.

Edit: $12.44 each in stock at my local place

Sweet.

SkinnyG · Post by **SkinnyG** » August 14, 2006, 9:45 pm

I'm using the Chevette lower, and a VW tie rod as an upper (Moog ES419). The Chevette tie rod does fit, but is female thread.

If you need a longer tie rod for your Chevette rack, a Moog ES2261 fits (just picked up a pair) and is just over an inch longer. Sit down for the price though - they're expensive (mine are cheap off shore. Instead of $125 each, I paid $25 each).

G

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 14, 2006, 9:56 pm

I ordered the Land Cruiser joint, since I already ordered 1"od and .5"id tube for the upper joints I need an outside threaded one. The 14mm rod end I couldn't find, but making 17mm threads in the rod is just as easy as 14mm. As for the rack I just missed an auction for a Midget rack, it went for $15 on ebay :oops:

I had it bookmarked and everything. I missed it by 2 hours. I'll keep looking.

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 23, 2006, 7:43 am

The Land Cruiser tie rod ends don't fit, I'll try the VW ones.

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 24, 2006, 1:43 pm

Got the steel this morning, $160 for all the tubing (not including the DOM tubing for suspension) , waiting for quote on the sheets.

After 3.5 hours...

eMKay · Post by **eMKay** » August 24, 2006, 8:18 pm

Where I finished up tonight.

I of course made a mistake, I messed up K1 and K2 making them too long, then when I cut them down I made one too short, so I had to cut it out and make a new one. Then I put K3 and K4 on the outside when they are supposed to be in an inch on each side, so I had to cut those out. I haven't put the side LC tubes in yet because I don't yet know what angle they have to be, they will be added when I figure out the suspension design.

isomswim · Post by **isomswim** » August 24, 2006, 8:54 pm

looks good the frame is really coming along. keep up the work cant wait to see the finished product :wink:

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Suzuki GT Powered build

Suzuki Tech: Transmissions – Length and Weight

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