LocostUSA.com

I am new to the world of building cars and I came across this site that has me really thinking that I could really accomplish this. I have been looking at pictures of the Locost cars that are being built and see that most of them are a tight fitting ride, I know most race cars have to be.

What if I were to take the +442E frame and take all the dimensions and increase the size by say 5-10% so that even more engines could be used and the cockpit would be a bit larger for more comfort. From reading all the build logs I would say that most things have to be fabricated to fit the desired setup of the engine, drive train, and the driver or passengers. To me I think this would really work.

Please give me some ideas if this would work. I really like the ability in having a modular V8 from a Lincoln Mark VIII. Thanks and go easy on me its my first post.

Welcome to Locost USA!

Easy huh? Hope you have your Nomex undies on! Just kidding!

You can do just about anything you want to. Every build is as individual as it's builder. In my build, I'm taking a FWD VW lump and making it RWD!

The one thing to consider is that most of the designs here are based on tried and true, well tested plans (i.e. Aussie Mods). If you start adding length here... moving there... you may end up at the limits of the structure as considered normal. Larger tubing and more bracing would be a minimum consideration.

I'm 6' 2" with broad shoulders and my brother and I (same basic builds) were able to sit in my original frame (+442) and were very comfortable. It was actually surprising considering that in my 84 VW Jetta, we always rubbed shoulders!

There are already some pretty large engines shoe-horned into the established frame designs, so unless the Lincoln lump is completely different than the usual blocks, you might not have to change things as much as you think.

I think there was a discussion of the size comparisons between common V8 lumps (SBC, Mod, 5.0) in Rods 5.0 build, so you might start there.

Good luck and happy building!

KS

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

Great idea, not everyone wants a shoebox.

Yo-
Welcome to the forum!

Interesting idea, making essentially a XXX-Large chassis. There's no reason you can't do it. But I'm not so sure there's a reason to do it... Check into the measurements of the engine/trans you wish to use. That modular V8 Ford is rather wide at the cylinder head height. I haven't done any measurements, but I don't think you'd have to do a complete re-design of a 442 (for example) to make it work. There might be some adjustments needed to the taper of the engine bay and the width of the front end of the chassis, but not much more, I'd bet ya!

Now, if you wanna do it, just because you want to, that's a fine reason as far as I'm concerned. (Check my build log, I'm not the one to criticize an oddball design!) I'd follow suit with Botbasher and say that increased overall length/height/width might dictate larger cross-section of tubing and possibly a thicker wall tubing, but that's in no way a reason to say it can't be done.

In other words, keep researching, checking measurements and such, and keep us posted on your design as it evolves. It sounds like an interesting project. You could call your build log "Gulliver's Travels!"

Good Luck!

JD Kemp

_________________
JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

OK I would agree that diameter or wall size might need to increase but shouldn't the same frame, just a bit bigger, be more comfortable and be just a sturdy? I really do not care if it adds more weight cause infact it will be lighter than most production cars and still a thrill to drive. I just like the creature comforts and having the ease of space to wrench on it.

What kind of creature comforts are you looking to add??

My +442 McSorley will easily seat 2 big guys (both my brother and Mr. Rogers fit easily with me beside them) and planned properly I have tons of room in the foot wells for my size 12 and a donor battery in the passenger side. There is lots of room out front and enough out back to put all the suspension inboard with IRS!

These chassis (chassi?) have plenty of room to have a lot of features. I'll have a heater, 12" touchscreen laptop, WBo2, EDIS and Megasquirt modules all in the dash and still should have a lot of room to play. The +442E is capable of housing a 5.0 and although tight it still looks like it belongs in there (i.e. Rods 5.0) while still allowing room for a heater and other "necessities".

Again, like Gonzo said... if it's what you really want, don't let us dissuade you from following your plan. I think that if you start looking closely at all the builds though, you'll find that these cars are not meant to be comfortable in the traditional sense of that word. No cup holders (well, except maybe for Pooks builds!), wood trimming or bi-zone heating here!

So, what kind of "comforts" are you thinking of adding?

Cheers!

KS

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

The creature comforts that I was thinking of adding was seats out of a production vehicle (possible power or heated), heater, stereo w/ speakers up front and rear, cup holders, custom fabricated doors, soft top, and I would like to have some sort of storage space for overnight stays at maybe a hotel or friends.

Basically I was first turned on to the AC cobra but way out of my price range. I then looked at a corvette but those are overplayed and not as unique. I saw the ar-iel at-om on Top Gear and thought that has to be the best car to drive. But the open tube chassis is out of the question cause my wife would not even set foot in something like that. However, I live in a state where the weather will creep up on you in a heartbeat. Plus for the 6 months of the year where I would like to drive it but the air is way too cold I need a top on it. I guess what I am saying is that I would just like a bit more room inside the cockpit so I don't feel claustrophobic with another person that is my size.

Another question would be about axle width and steering rack width. If I were to do the XXXL chassis would I have troubles with finding donors?

Thanks

Hmmm, XXXL? I think you're in luck! That would be a Lotus 20, and it seems they never made one of those so you have a clean sheet of paper.

I don't think you'll have trouble finding donors, lots of cars bigger then even an XXXL.

A modular V8 is quite a bit larger then a Ford 5.0. The word ginourmous comes to mind...

Here's a picture. Note that the small motor is a 351 and maybe the 5.0 has a lower deck height? So it would be most of an inch shorter and 1.5 inches narrower. There is an actual photo comparison on this site somewhere and it is startling. Not saying it can't be done, but I'm just not sure it brings anything extra besides size.

On the car that I'm drawing up, I extended the nose of the car forward a bit and am hoping that will help it not look too bulky. I don't see why the nosecone can't go a few inches in front of the front wheels.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

Here's somethings to consider...

If you have a specific donor in mind, then your limiting dims would be bound by those measurements. You won't be able to have a 60" wide frame if the distance between the wheels is only 55" without some serious work and expense. So rather than starting with a known frame as most builds do and working the parts into it, you should start with your donors dims and then work the frame from there. If you have 55" between the wheels, then your max width is going to be somewhere around 52". How wide are the seats your looking to use? If the wheels constrain it on the outside and the seats are x width, will you have enough room for your tunnel? Efficient use of space is a paragon virtue! Even XXXL has limits!

I haven't seen the numbers, but what does a modular motor weigh? The size difference is considerable, so unless it's aluminum, putting that much weight out in front of the car might impact the handling. Increased weight in the front also tends to mean increased weight in the rear due to beefed up components, so you might not just be looking at a car that's a few pounds over, but significantly more. Its easy to gain weight quickly.. my .120 mistake is a testament to that! I thought I'd over build it because I wanted to use different engines, but by the time I had the frame complete it weighed over 2x the given standard weight (was looking at a 1600# car over my 1200# dream!). I chose differently this time and I can now heft the entire frame!

Again.. your build is your build and don't let anyone change the course of your dream, but when departing from the given norms on your very 1st build, there is much to consider and design for that might not be apparent until much later on when it is harder to deal with!

Hope all these injections are helping your dreams take form!

Cheers!

KS

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

chancock82 - the only drawback to making everything 10% bigger is that you might need to fab your own nose cone and scuttle. There are several manufacturers that offer pre-fabbed fiberglass parts for nose and scuttle and this speeds up the build. The scuttle is not that big an issue. If you scan the build logs, you will see several well made aluminum skinned scuttles. The nose cone is a different issue. Only a few builders fab their own, so you might want to consider this as you make the frame larger than the +442 or book size.

Good luck and welcome!

I totally forgot about the nose.. I'm doing my own scuttle, but I got a nose supplied by Kinetic. I started off wanting to make my own, but that idea quickly tarnished after reading about the process and realizing that my glassing and alum fab skills were not up to snuff!

big +1 for putting that on the table!

Cheers!

KS

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

Welllll.... Not to be an arse about it, but.... I have a slightly different viewpoint on the nose cone thing....

I didn't build a "standard" Locost in any way. None of the "off the rack" body parts would have fit it. I knew that all along, and one part of my plan was to create my own bodywork. I bought Mr. Rutan's book on homebuilt composite structure. (Was it Dick or Burt that wrote that???) I read all I could on forums on aircraft builds and boats and such, and had at it. Pook, in the "Non-Traditional Builds" section in here was an invaluable resource on the subject. Look here-- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8113 for some good information.

And now, that nose is one of my favorite bits of the car, even if neither car or nose are completed yet. I thought it up, sculpted it out of foam (more than once) and fiberglassed it. It ain't perfect, it ain't gonna please everybody, but it's alllll mine and I love it!!

That said, it takes hours and hours of gluing, carving and sanding the foam, and then hours to layup the fiberglass, and then hours and hours to sand it to a paintable finish and then it still ain't perfect. I've said in other threads that I have a "Love/Hate" relationship with fiberglass, and that's true. If I'd been smart, I'd have done more of the rear deck/fenders/sidepods in aluminum. (But nobody said I was smart...)

If the time involved doesn't talk you out of it, it's by far NOT the hardest part of the build...
OK, that's my .02, but for you guys, no charge!

_________________
JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

I would have to agree about the nose cone but what if I were to take the nose cone from a +442E frame and cut it down the middle of each of the verticle and horizontal planes then added the extra fiberglass spacing in there to compensate the added dimensions. Would that work?

Yes. ..

You should look at Jack's "Catfish" nose, it's already 6" wider so you might be able to get away with just adding heighth.
He even shows how to do it on one of his pages wherein he adds width to an existing body and creates the Lalo.

Geez, did I just use "wherein"? Sheeeesh. ..

_________________
"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett

Well, I was gonna answer you, and say that you could use a Kinetic Vehicle's "Catfish" nose and do exactly what you said, but then OldeJack answered you AND used "wherein" (correctly, even!) and I'm struck speechless...

You're on your own, until I can recover.

_________________
JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom