Have anyone use a Honda H22?

[eric]

I'm throwing some idea of maybe going with a mid engine on the locost.
How hard is it to stick the engine at the back.
Does not seem much room back there. just want some opinion of what other did.
Is there a frame modification for this set up?
My plan was taking a prelude motor and trans and stick it to the back directly. sound easy. But would it work?

ERIc

[mr.peabody.d]

I think that is the easiest way to use a honda motor....(current correct turning inline fours excluded)

Check out KB58 he did this with a Honda engine.
His build link is stickied at the top of this forum section....
or his home page...
http://www.kimini.com

[Middy Tim]

I'm planning a mid-engined build to start this spring/summer. I'll be using a Neon SRT-4 engine (unless another option looks better later). My current plan is to just move the engine straight back like you said, and manipulate the shifter and cables until I get it to work. I'm not starting with a "book" frame or anything though, I'm pretty much designing my chassis around the components I choose (engine, seats, suspension, etc.).

-Tim

[KB58]

How hard is it to stick the engine at the back?
I'd expect most people would say front-engine is easier, but that's because they already have the Book plans. Starting from scratch, it's not any harder than putting the engine up front.

Does not seem much room back there. just want some opinion of what other did.
In a Book chassis, you're correct, there is not enough room. However, it's your car and your design - make more room!

Is there a frame modification for this set up?
Yes, whatever you come up with... I don't know of anyone else who's done it, yet.

My plan was taking a prelude motor and trans and stick it to the back directly. sound easy. But would it work?

Yes, and it is an H22 back there. There is a ton of into on my site. looks like you'll have to buy my book!

[OzGecko]

Is there a frame modification for this set up?
My plan was taking a prelude motor and trans and stick it to the back directly. sound easy. But would it work?

G'day Eric,

As Kurt says, there's no readily available plans for such a thing. I'm (very, very, slowly) building a mid-engined clubman (with 20-valve Corolla drivetrain). My chassis design still has some Locost-ish aspects but it's probably 95% my own design now. It's been a long evolutionary process to get to a frame that:
- I'm happy with the apparent strength of (once it's finished we'll see how it actually fairs in that respect)
- that is fairly straightforward to build (not too many different tube sizes or odd welding processes required)
- fits all of the donor parts I've got and still looks like a clubman

The last one was probably the main constraint and a major contributor to the very extended build time (plus losing most of the last two years with various health and other issues).

Here are two images: a rendering of the chassis design (although the version I'm building is a bit simpler than that I don't have a render of it), and the 1:10 "styling" model. There's also a few more images in my Picasa gallery at http://picasaweb.google.com/diysportscar.

Hope this is helpful,

Dominic

[whittlebeast]

Go with the k20 motor from a rsx-s. 15 years on honda development over the h22 and with the correct head on the k24 motor ....

[KB58]

True, and the exhaust is on the backside of the head. However, it is much more expensive than the H22.

[chetcpo]

Just for goofs I looked on car-part.com and the majority of those engines were around $3k.

[whittlebeast]

Its just like a divorce. They are expensive "cus they are worth it" I have a RSX-S and Dells D-Mod / E-Mod car is one . . . Thats where all the R&D in the Honda ricer world is going now K20A killed the B16/B18/B20 200 hp stock 240 hp NA is just not a problem and 8000 RPM. 9000 if you start with the S2000 bottom end and valvetrain. Just remember that an LS1 is only 400lbs and makes about 400 HP and 400 Ft-Lbs stock with a fair exhaust 500 HP NA is easy. but you need 57% rear weight bias to get this all to work.

AW

[KB58]

Just remember that an LS1 is only 400lbs and makes about 400 HP and 400 Ft-Lbs stock with a fair exhaust 500 HP NA is easy. but you need 57% rear weight bias to get this all to work.

AW

True, but that's just the engine. Don't forget the tranny, and bigger driveshaft, diff, axles, uprights, brakes, wheels and uprights, which will all be heavier than a 4-cylinder application. I understand your point, but we have to compare it apples-to-apples. The Honda drivetrain will weigh a lot less, as a complete assembly. My H22 is about 450lbs, and that's engine, tranny, manifolds, and accessaries.

[whittlebeast]

True, but that's just the engine. Don't forget the tranny, and bigger driveshaft, diff, axles, uprights, brakes, wheels and uprights, which will all be heavier than a 4-cylinder application. I understand your point, but we have to compare it apples-to-apples. The Honda drivetrain will weigh a lot less, as a complete assembly. My H22 is about 450lbs, and that's engine, tranny, manifolds, and accessaries.

Trany 135# with torque converter. Driveshaft all Aluminum and about 18" long Diff (Ford 8.8 cobra independent) about 60# and every conceivable option of diff design. Two types of Torsen, other gear types, 2.88 - 5.88 gears ratios available ... Uprights I will build them Mazda aluminum hubs with motorcycle rotors and 300zx Turbo aluminum two puck binders. Wheels are 17x8 15# and the entire car gets 450# of lead to get it up to E-Mod weight. Weight dist 40% to 55% front, totally adjustable. I am shooting for 10.5 at 135 in the 1/4 mile and 1.6 gees on the binders and a 600 RPM idle. All this with a $1000 motor on Megasquirt. Megasquirt is not in the $1000 number. Wish me luck.

Edit: Mid engine would not lend itself to a cheep gearbox. That is how I ended up building a Locost and not a Fiero.

AW

[Middy Tim]

I chose to use the SRT-4 engine for a number of reasons.

1) Relatively cheap, most can be had on eBay for around $2000 for engine, tranny, turbo, everything
2) POWER!!! 260 hp stock, and parts everywhere to get it higher if needed
3) With a mid-engine set-up the turbo is at the very back of the car. My exhaust will be 1 U-bend, a muffler, and a 45* turn out the back. probably 3 feet of tube.