Tube chassis mid-engine VW Beetle

[Rennkafer]

Hey all, thought I'd post a thread on one of my projects... as the title suggests it's a fully tube chassis, mid-engine VW Beetle. A 1973 Standard to be precise. Drive train is a VW 2.5L 5 cylinder (with turbo) mated to an Audi 01X 6 speed FWD gearbox. Suspension is Miata based, as they have good geometry and I'm pretty familiar with their modification as my last track car was a '97 Miata. I have most of the inner structure of the body cut away currently and the lower central chassis is complete. Next up will be roll cage structure and then on to the forward and rear sections so I can hang suspension on it.

I'm currently not getting much done on it as I'm doing the last of my treatment for cancer, I found out (the hard way) that a couple major surgeries and chemotherapy aren't particularly conducive to getting much done in my shop. I'm seeing the light at the end of the treatment tunnel though so it's getting time that I'll be back at it. I also lost the canopy behind my shop in a snow storm we had last month so given that took away my MIG welding area unless it's dry out (and that doesn't happen often this time of year in Western Washington).

And because I need extra stuff to do, I just purchased a partially completed Locost project from another forum member here. Just have to go pick it up in a couple weeks. There will be a build thread on that too. I plan to work on them concurrently and work on one when the other is stalled waiting on parts/cash/etc.

Pics follow.. Beetle as purchased, build table (which will also get used for the Locost), lower chassis, interior shots, and one with the wheels just set in place. It will need about 4-5" of flare on both ends to cover the wheel/tire combo at stock Miata width.

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[ccrunner]

Welcome Rennkafer! Congrats on getting through your treatment... it will be so nice to get to it and hammer out this vision.. And what a vision it is! This little Beetle will move as it never has before with your planned drivetrain- WooHoo!

--ccrunner

[ccrunner]

Double Post

[Rennkafer]

Double Post

Only shows up once for me...

[Rennkafer]

Welcome Rennkafer! Congrats on getting through your treatment... it will be so nice to get to it and hammer out this vision.. And what a vision it is! This little Beetle will move as it never has before with your planned drivetrain- WooHoo!

--ccrunner

Thanks! It's been an interesting journey so far and one I will be very happy when it's done. And ya, the Beetle ought to get out of its own way with ~400-450whp and only 1800lbs. It will all sort of amusing to pass the Corvettes on the front straight.

[Driven5]

Congrats on kicking c in the plums and getting back to the shop! That's going to be a fun Beetle build.

Where in WWA are you?

[Rennkafer]

Congrats on kicking c in the plums and getting back to the shop! That's going to be a fun Beetle build.

Where in WWA are you?

Thanks! I'm in Kitsap County, near Port Orchard.

[KB58]

...And ya, the Beetle ought to get out of its own way with ~400-450whp and only 1800lbs. It will all sort of amusing to pass the Corvettes on the front straight.

Well, comparing the difference in drag between a Corvette and early Bug may show it could be a closer race than first expected. Anything above around 100 mph, it's all aero.

[JPS Europa]

Speaking of aero, how will you keep it on the ground over 100 mph? I had a hot rodded bug back in the day with 150 HP and it would easily go over 100. Scariest moment was running down the interstate hard and then realizing that the front tires were no longer on the ground...it came back down as soon as I came off the throttle, but I was sure "This is it!". That tiny front spoiler in the picture did nothing. Not sure how fast I was going, but too fast. Lots of these things used to flip drag racing. I ended up putting smaller diameter (but even wider) wheels and tires on it, lowering even more than it had been and fitting a front air dam. It was much better, but I could still feel the front end get light at speed, but at least it did not leave the ground ever again...and I will admit I never again looked for max speed. Wheelstands from a stop were fun. Wheelstands at 100 mph, not so much. No getting around all those curved surfaces...I am sure you will do your best.
I love fast bugs. Will follow this build for sure.

[Bent Wrench]

Needed some ballast in the front?

[Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F]

Front and rear wings are a must, though my ’63 wide five with a 4.37r&p, 1600dp and berg shifter never went fast enough to worry about such things but it was still fun. I have an article where they Bill Fisher performed aero testing on a stock 69 bug with three different aftermarket add-ons that were available at the time: a front belly pan, the Hermes “Aerofoil”, and a 4 inch lip spoiler. Lift at 75 mph then 100mph, front/rear:
stock = 76.5/68 lbs, 153/136 lbs
belly pan = 47/67, 94/134 lbs
Hermes aerofoil = 80/78, 160/162
4 inch lip = 39.5/78, 79/156

I saw a hemi powered front engine bug on youtube recently. Probably enough downforce with lump upfront.

[Driven5]

Speaking of aero, how will you keep it on the ground over 100 mph?

There are ways... http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20459

[Rennkafer]

...And ya, the Beetle ought to get out of its own way with ~400-450whp and only 1800lbs. It will all sort of amusing to pass the Corvettes on the front straight.

Well, comparing the difference in drag between a Corvette and early Bug may show it could be a closer race than first expected. Anything above around 100 mph, it's all aero.

There will be some aero mods done.

[Warren Nethercote]

Instead of flaring the fenders have you thought of slicing them vertically and adding material to widen them? It might be an better look, or maybe not ...

[Rennkafer]

Instead of flaring the fenders have you thought of slicing them vertically and adding material to widen them? It might be an better look, or maybe not ...

You can buy "stock look" widened fenders in fiberglass. Doing them in metal would work and it's been done by others in the past, I want to lose weight there though, not gain it so fiberglass it is. If I had the budget/interest in doing it myself they'd be carbon fiber.

I'm not married to flares, but no one (even Kerscher in Germany) make wide enough fenders in a stock (or flared) look. We'll see though, I'll try the flares and if I don't like how they look, I'll try something different.