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PostPosted: November 10, 2005, 10:16 pm 
Here, I have them fitted in my jig, un-welded so don't hold me to the dimensions yet. These are for use with s10 knuckles and a book chassis.

*** I welded them up and fitted them to the car. They fit fine. Lowers are a bit too short, by less tha 1/2" but the heims are adjustable enough that they can be aligned.

The length of the A arms is from the bottom of the threaded tube to the top of the collar. To get the distance to the center of the ball joint subtract 1". This diagram doesn't take into account the distance to the center of the heims as they are adjustable. After the arms are fitted and the knuckles are on, then figure out the distance of the steering racks control arms

Image

here is what they will look like (this is my original version for reference). I have since re-built my jig to make the lower arm 2" shorter.

Image

the suspension brackets that clamp the heims:

Image

Here are some links copied from below:

Quote:
blazer knuckles

all my stuff was bought from lawrence engineering: http://www.lawrence-eng.com/

the screw in sleeves are made by afco part # 20043 www.afcoracing.com

I don't have part numbers for the heims as they were handed to me and were loose. The threaded tube for the heims was taken from a box of them. I don't think that lawrence engineering does mail order, but you can try.

here are some quick links I just found:

screw in sleeves:
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=715

ball joints;
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=706
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=707

heims:
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=204
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=206

poly-bushed heims:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/d ... roduct.htm

tie rods:
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... tegoryID=8

Adaptor Rack Eye To Rod End
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... oductID=94


Last edited by derf on November 12, 2005, 4:01 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 2:20 am 
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Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7048
Location: Charleston, WV
Thanks Derf! Those look great. About how much caster do those dimensions allow? Do you plan on welding in a gussett or something to brace the lower arm? I noticed the book arms have a piece welded in there around the ball joint location.

I was curious why you went with the spherical links to the chassis mounting points instead of the bushing type that the book describes.


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 2:36 am 
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Do you plan on welding in a gussett or something to brace the lower arm? I noticed the book arms have a piece welded in there around the ball joint location.

I was curious why you went with the spherical links to the chassis mounting points instead of the bushing type that the book describes.


yes the lower still needs to be reinforced, its not done yet

the book piece has standard arms, mine are ny design.

I used the heim joints for 2 reasons, 1-ease of build- 2-availability-,


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 8:14 am 
If I understand the design, it'll also allow more adjustability than the book design. You can screw the heims in/out a bit as needed to tweak the upright's angles.


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 8:46 am 
quick question, what is the length of the tube holding the heims?

Image


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 10:09 am 
Quote:
quick question, what is the length of the tube holding the heims?


It doesn't matter. Make them much longer than needed and trim them to suit.

Derf: You should clarify that the distance from ball joint center to the end of the threaded tube inserts is 9.5". Otherwise, some might get confused that the 9.5" is the distance to the TOP of the ball joint ring--a wierd way of measuring control arms.

--Chris


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 10:44 am 
No it's the wierd way of measuring it, it is 8.5" from the end of the threaded tube to the top of the ball joint ring.

Joker, there is alot more adustability than you realise. I can adjust camber, caster, track width, and distance from from front to rear. Some can be adjusted more than others,but it is possible.


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 11:02 am 
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Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7048
Location: Charleston, WV
derf wrote:
No it's the wierd way of measuring it, it is 8.5" from the end of the threaded tube to the top of the ball joint ring.

Joker, there is alot more adustability than you realise. I can adjust camber, caster, track width, and distance from from front to rear. Some can be adjusted more than others,but it is possible.


OK I feel stupid for asking the caster question now. The answer is that it is adjustable due to the helm joints. I can see now that they add a great deal of versatility and alignment possibilities. Nicely done Derf.


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 11:21 am 
The threaded tubes are 2 1/4" long

Yes to adjust caster screw out the front upper A arm heim, and the lower rear heim, or vica-versa.

track width-screw all out equally
track length-screw the rear heims out
camber-screw one arm out equally

the only problem with the heims is that they are not very compliant and will wear out over time. My guess is every 10k they will need to be replaced, or sooner. There are polybushed versions that will screw in the same threaded tube available too. The other plus about the heims is that the car will respond better to steering and suspension inputs, making the suspension do it's job.

My steering is going to be adjustable as well, using heims on the steering arms too.


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 12:46 pm 
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Joined: August 17, 2005, 1:30 am
Posts: 2403
Location: So CALIFORNIA
Derf
Nicely Done...

Could you share the part numbers for the heims and ball joint and contact infomation for the company you purchased them from..
Quote:
The ball joints are again from the dirt track guys, but the label marked them as pinto ball joint.
They are similar to press in units, but they screw in. The collars on my A arms are threaded too and the ball joint just screws in. I need to cut my old suspension tabs off before I can mount these, then I am going to work on mounting the shocks (which I still havn't done).

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

Are you using the "ball joint screw ins" Pinto with blazer spindles?
Quote:
I am using the steering knuckles and rear axle from a blazer which is same as an s10, and they fit perfectly with the book chassis.

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=149

Quote:
My spindles and rear axle are from a 1997 blazer that had a tree dropped on it, parts were dirt cheap because the car was uninsured at the time of its demise.

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... t=spindles

Quote:
The suspension pieces were bought locally through a circle track speed shop called lawrence engineering out of trenton, NJ.

http://www.lawrence-eng.com/

Quote:
The suspension pieces cost me a hair under $250

Quote:
The bolt is 1/2", and on one side of the bracket is a 5/8" tube welded in place the other side of the bracket is free the same 5/8" tube but free floating that way they clamp on the heim joint.

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... light=heim

Just trying to coral information....


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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 1:31 pm 
blazer knuckles

all my stuff was bought from lawrence engineering: http://www.lawrence-eng.com/

the screw in sleeves are made by afco part # 20043 www.afcoracing.com

I don't have part numbers for the heims as they were handed to me and were loose. The threaded tube for the heims was taken from a box of them. I don't think that lawrence engineering does mail order, but you can try.

here are some quick links I just found:

screw in sleeves:
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=715

ball joints;
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=706
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=707

heims:
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=204
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... ductID=206

poly-bushed heims:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/d ... roduct.htm

tie rods:
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... tegoryID=8

Adaptor Rack Eye To Rod End
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... oductID=94


Last edited by derf on November 12, 2005, 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 11, 2005, 2:00 pm 
derf wrote:
Joker, there is alot more adustability than you realise. I can adjust camber, caster, track width, and distance from from front to rear. Some can be adjusted more than others,but it is possible.


I realized it. I just couldn't remember all the technical terms! :D I really like the idea, but if they wear as much as you indicate I would probably look at "Plan B". Here's the thought/plan: considering there is a lot of playing around trying to determine the best setup, the adjustable A arms are a great place to test out different settings. Once the 'best' settings are determined, new "fixed-position" A arms could be made to replicate the same end-to-end dimensions found with the adjustable setup. Yes, it's essentially making the same pieces twice, but at least the second time around you know exactly what you need to make.


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PostPosted: November 12, 2005, 12:15 pm 
Added poly bushed heims.

and changed my original post to show stuff posted later.

updated the diagram to show length of threaded tube


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PostPosted: November 18, 2005, 12:43 am 
I just ordered 4 Rack Eye To Rod End adapters. This should work nicely with my knuckles and steering rack. I have been debating what the best way to mate the heims to my knuckles and rack, all I kept coming up with was that i would need a spacer and also would have to drill out my knuckles and rack so that they arn't tapered. A few minutes of searching and I came up with the adapter.

I also had my first dealing with afco's customer service, not great, but better than most places. My big complaint is hat the guy on the other end had no clue as to the dimensions of the piece. It also took me a few minutes for him to figure out exactly what it was. At first he thought it held the wheel berings into the knuckle. Other than that the guy was very patient and delt with me politely while I got frustrated and cursed a few times.

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/a ... oductID=94


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PostPosted: November 18, 2005, 2:05 am 
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Joined: August 17, 2005, 1:30 am
Posts: 2403
Location: So CALIFORNIA
Awesome information DERF

too cool, Thank you!


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