LocostUSA.com

Okay, so previously I had posted I am doing a traditional locost powered by a 12a rotary.... well things changed and not that you need to know why, I am going to tell you anyways.

My Daily driver was an old BMW E28 and I originally got the car to be just a car to beat up and autocross, while using it on a daily basis for my wife and 2 dogs to fit in as well. This seemed to be a great car for the do it everything job, great at nothing but okay at everything, while driving it daily I would be building a lotus 7 replica for future more serious track duty. My plans of starting my lotus build were put on hold for my wedding, which was in August, then after the wedding my Birthday is in September and my Wife bought me a Grand Cherokee. All this was dandy, however in the time I have been driving the BMW I have been growing quite attached to the old beast and I no longer want to get rid of it. So only being able to justify one project car the already existing BMW wins over the drawing of plans on my office desk.

Everything has to be done in stages as I m sticking with the Locost theme. While I already had 4 beautiful motorcycle shocks sitting waiting to be put in one car, I figured it is time to make plans to put them in something else. I want to build new front and rear suspension for the BMW using these wonderfully adjustable shocks. The back is fairly easy to figure out as I only have to build a lever/mounting system that will be in the rear trunk (though figuring out all dimensions may be tough)or just build a set of adapters to use the shock inplace of the stock one. The front is where I need Help.

The front suspension on an E28 is a strut type, so just mounting a simple push rod design or replacement adapters wont be easy. I need some Ideas and realize I may be opening up a big can of worms to be discussed. Would it be easiest to fabricate a whole new front sub frame running SLA suspension, or is there a way to design a set up that would still just use an adapter and make life a bit easier?

So you can all know some of my other plans, I am planing on replacing the inline six with a small block or maybe even big block ford V8 (I do not like GM). I also have body/aero changes to be made that are inspired by the classic BMW CSL race cars (I know one e28 that has already had this done to it). My goal weight for the car is to try and get to 2500-2600lbs.

_________________
Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.

Just bear in mind that it would be easier to build a locost than to design, adapt and sort complete new suspension for your BMW. Not trying to be a downer but I'd be very surprised if anything you could come up with would work as well as stock with a set of fresh bushings and springs and upgraded swaybars. That's just my $.02 opinion, so take it for what it's worth. If this is something you are dead set on doing then don't let me damper your enthusiasm. Good luck.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Sounds like a neat build. I would like to do something similar with an old Ford or Mercury from the 60's. (I don't like GM either) My line of thinking on this is that it might be easier to cut the floor pan out of the body and build a new chassis, similar to a locost, and then drop the old body on. My dad has built a few race cars based on production cars that used the stock floor pan and he agrees with my thinking that it would be better and easier to just use the body on a new chassis. Grassroots Motorsprts had a neat article on a Dodge in the August issue that was built in this way.

Here's some more info on it. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3236049
Kristian

_________________
V6 in a book frame build. Now registered.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7587
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=18172

While I do not disagree with what you have said, I do want to make my BMW "better" (I hope). I realize it is not going to ride as nice as stock I do believe it can be made to handle better then stock. I have been thinking a lot about this even since have posted my original inquiry. I know they make new sub-frames for muscle cars that dramatically improve the suspension set up, so I see no reason I can not do the same for the 23 Year old BMW (I think it is more then a 30 year old design). With my thinking I am leaning toward the idea of complete new sub-frames front and back instead of just adapters. I think this will give me more opportunities to genuinely improve HANDLING (not ride).

Seeing as how the E28 is being gutted, re-bodied, new engine, and all new suspension set up, it really is just a frame to build off of. I do still think a traditional locost will be a better performer. I like the Idea of having something unique (not that a seven isn't) and I have never seen a Group 5 retro styled touring car on the street (I have seen a few sevens).

_________________
Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.

I think you missed the jist of what I was saying. I think building a locost from scratch would be easier because:
You are starting with a clean piece of paper,
you are following a road well travelled and well documented for the most part,
you are working with mostly new materials top to bottom,
you aren't working around an unknown (except to retired Bavarian engineers) form factor.

The flip side of my Locost building positives are as follows:
Welding to a unibody sucks, even with a new car with all the paint, corrosion inhibiting coatings and sound deadeners. It sucks ten times as bad when you grind off that paint/tar/undercoating and find nothing to weld to but rust.
You refer to the 30 year old suspension design as if it is inadequate simply because it's 30 years old. Things have come a long way, but BMW was not exactly on the tail end of the curve for when it came to producing well handling cars, even 30 years ago. The lotus design we all strive to reproduce (and often fail to replicate) predates that 30 year old design by a decade or two. We went to the moon over 18 years before your car was built, that doesn't mean you could do it better. Just because they didn't have solidworks and FEA doesn't mean that they couldn't do great things. Not trying to be a wiseass here, I just don't want you to minimize the task you are undertaking.
You are alone in the woods on this. Not many forums to go to compare build plans or seek help when you're doing something this unique.

However if you do choose to do it and you stick with it through the trials and tribulations that will come with it and do a good job it may be worthwhile. (but maybe only to you- it won't make you rich selling suspension kits the cars are too rare or successful as a racer since it likely won't fit any class rules) Either way just don't expect it to be easier than building a Locost.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

I'll be happy to look at pictures. But I just want to say that fixing up street cars is just a heart breaking job. It also costs lots of money. You have to crawl under them and get dirt in your eyes. It costs lots of money and then they just rust out on you anyway. Everything weighs more, is hard to get to. Everything is very compromised and that gets sort of discouraging. I know Sevens aren't so practical either, but you have a nice practical car you like already. The seven will last forever, you can put it on sawhorses and work at waist height on anything.

Good luck and consider changing your mind again!

Did I mention the expense part yet? And the dirt and crawling part? and not being able to keep up with current street cars when your done?

I know what your feeling, it's hard to resist fixing things. Like I said, I'll be happy to look at the pictures...

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

I am clearly not good at communicating things, so I am sorry for any confusion in my responses. I have been considering the locost and have been for years now. It is hard for me cause I DO keep changing my mind.

Chetcpo, I have been hovering around on this site for what feels like ages, and I find you are one of the biggest contributers to it, your opinion means alot to me as I am sure it means a lot to others as well. I do completely understand what you are saying, and you do know more about any of these large projects then I ever will it seems. But in my train of thought, when it comes to BMW designing the suspension they had to find a balance in comfort, and performance as well as cost for mass production. So if I only focus on one thing would it not be easier to improve on just performance if I am not worried about the comfort part? Oh and to clear it up I by no means do I think I can design a better suspension then BMW, but I do think I have less goals to meet and it is easier to acheive one goal rather then 20 at a time.

I do not plan on making money in any of this, it is purly for my own satisfaction.

I am still looking at all options hense why I asked for opinions, I can only do one project as previously mentioned. I have many diffrent "good" ideas as I am sure many of you do as well. just to list a few a traditional locost, a mid engine rotary or v8 locost, or my BMW. These three stand out the most and my bmw is not worth anything (250000miles), however it is realativly rust free (I have seen 3 year old cars with more corrosion) so it is hard not to consider it a good project base. Oh and one last thing my wife HATES convertibles so if I do a locost of any type I will have to find a way to make a hard top roof as well.

_________________
Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.

I seen what ya dun there, shocking.

OP, the BMW geometry is well proven, if you have to go to massive trouble of fabricating a whole new subframe/front end just to use a couple of shocks then make the struts full hydraulic rams and use hydraulic lines to operate a remote linkage setup operating the shocks rather than changing the chassis and struts.

Well there you have it! Skip the super7. You could check out the Midlana web site though...

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

Sorry to come off as such a downer. Maybe my past spent welding and grinding on a hopelessly corroded 83 VW GTI and an old Volvo 240 have scarred me deeper than I realized. I would just hate to see you take a car that you love and tear it down with big plans only to be forced to bail on it. Then you walk away having lost your car and fallen short of your goals. What you're describing can be done, but the level of difficulty is hard for us internet readers to estimate. If that thing is rusty and corroded like most cars of that age at your stated latitude it might get a bit hairy. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Oh and tell your wife to put her hair up in a pony tail and enjoy the ride or stay at home. Confronted with that alternative she might be willing to compromise. Hell it isn't her car anyway. Don't feel guilty because you're building a car for you and not her. J feel your pain though. I remember dating girls who would freak out when you even rolled down the windows. "My hair! It's going to be all in knots!"

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Yo-
My ex-wife hated my MG... Note the emphasis...

JD "Priorities?" Kemp

I'm with chetcpo,I too have spent far too many hours trying to turn production cars into something they were never meant to be.Finally saw the light and built from scratch and have no regrets whatsoever.

Drive the bimmer and enjoy it for what it is while you build the car you actually WANT.

My decision is not made but I am leaning towards, using the BMW as is (maybe some free weight reduction) for autocross, and just tooling around town on occasion, while I build a car. This Idea does make a lot of sense, and I appreciate everyone's input.

But as to what I should build seeing as the wife hates convertibles (not for hair reasons, but she just gets cold easy)

I have looked at the midlana project and do like that very much, as for what I want to do, I can not afford it ,GT40 replica, but the trans-axle alone for a big block is way to much money. So if I do a mid-ship design I will have to do the lotus way (add lightness) to achieve the performance I desire in whatever design I end up going with.

I already have a complete RX7 drive train in the garage, so a traditional locost is a cheap option, and I do like the looks but, how difficult will it be to design and make a hard top.

So I can do multiple things, lotus 7(cheapest as I already have everything and possibly easiest), midship (midlana inspired, but I would need a new drivtrain), or use an audi 5000 trans-axle with the turbo rotary engine for a complete original design (probable the hardest to accomplish). I feel confused as I really like all these ideas for different reasons.

All need to have hard tops so I will have to learn how to make molds and fiberglass. I am ready to start a build I just need to make a choice and stick with it!!!

_________________
Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.

Shes never ridden in a Locost them - your lower half is warm no matter what.

_________________
-Andrew
Build Log
Youtube

Something I've always thought would be fun for a hardtop project is a tube frame, rear wheel drive Mini, like Kurt's Kimini. I know another guy that built one with a GSXR 1000 engine too. Not sure how much a fibreglass body would set you back though.
Kristian

_________________
V6 in a book frame build. Now registered.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7587
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=18172