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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: Austin Seven Special ?!?
PostPosted: August 25, 2013, 1:18 pm 
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Location: Cedar City UT
awww... i wish i never joined this Forum :BH: ..... (JK :lol:)

i had my mind set on building a little "vintage" looking Reverse Trike (http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15316),
mainly for cruising around some of the scenic mountain roads in my area
... but the deeper i worked myself into all the build threads on this board the more i got infected with the (4 wheeled) Locost virus :twisted:

however, i`m a kinda "eccentric" guy that has to try "different" things, so unfortunately "just another" A-tom clone or Lotus replica is not going to do it for me ( :roll: )

in my search for inspiration i stumbled over this little 1932 Austin 7 Special and fell in love with its "look";
(sorry, large pics)
Image

Image
more pics; http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z15692/Austin-Seven-Special.aspx

i guess the 3-wheeler project is death now :roll: ...
but i think i want to stick to some of the same basic ideas;

- as LIGHTWEIGHT as possible !
- narrow "aircraft fuselage style" single seat body
- short WB ... (maybe ~ 80" ?!?)
- bike engine of at least 1 liter displacement
- SLA IFS with "Legend racing" aluminum front spindles
- "vintage" look but with "modern" tires & wheels

so that brings me to my main problem that i`m struggling with;

should i start planing/researching a straight rear axle setup (similar to Legends racing) for the correct "look" (but obvious performance disadvantage),
or do you think a A-arm IRS (maybe subaru/bmw/etc based) could be blended in without looking completely out of place ?!?

what do you guys think :?:


any and all suggestions and ideas (for the axle as well as overall concept) are very welcome and highly appreciated :wink:

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PostPosted: August 25, 2013, 2:51 pm 
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Yeah, I think a lot of those older Austin Specials are cool. There probably is a way to get and IRS to look right in such a car, but I'd vote for a traditional live axle if I were doing one. It's just a preference on my part.

I posted a couple of photos for another fellow who was considering a more vintage look, but can't find where they were posted now. You probably have already done a Google image search for Austin Seven Special, but that's where I found the photos anyway.

I hope someone does such a project. Good luck with yours.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: August 25, 2013, 4:09 pm 
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What about a DeDion axle? It can allow the driveshaft/differential to be placed lower in the chassis, eliminates the extra space requirement for vertical driveshaft/differential movement with suspension travel, and preserves at least a bit of the look.

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PostPosted: August 25, 2013, 4:53 pm 
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thanks for the ideas :cheers: (right now my brain is all fuzzy from web surfing :ack: )

DeDion would also be an idea ...
i may add a pic i found ( Lotus 11 ?!?) for peeps that are not familiar with the concept:
Image

basically a solid (live) axle mixed with IRS .... in theory it has reduced un-suspended mass (what could be very critical in a sub 1000 lbs car)

hmmmm ....

the solid axle is interesting for its simplicity ,
but finding a wrecking yard donor that is correctly geared (in the 1:3.5 range ?!?) narrow, light, cheap, and has a LSD (or can be upgraded) seems to be difficult.

obviously buying a complete "Legends" axle would be one solution ...
Image
...but price is a little steep and the (60" overall) axle is probably too narrow when used with deep backspace wheels.

my gearhead brain is screaming for a small & super lightweight SE "mini stock" QC;
Image
http://www.1speedway.com/ministock_qc.htm
... need to search for Ken`s price list that i have somewhere, but my guess is that it is well over my budget :ack:

Ken@ SE also builds custom wide lightweight 8" mini stock floater hosings ...
Image
but again .... maybe still too much $$$ (especially with a LSD)

so maybe a Subaru IRS (like "B85" Randall`s) would be the locost way to go ?!?

Image

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PostPosted: August 25, 2013, 5:46 pm 
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i just noticed that this Miller V16 Indy Car has also a DeDion rear axle 8)

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PostPosted: August 25, 2013, 7:24 pm 
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Solid axle from a spridget or triumph maybe? The triumph wheel base is only 44 inches wide if I remember right. Forgot the gearing.


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PostPosted: August 26, 2013, 6:37 am 
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I originally thought about DeDion but ended up with IRS. Lower mass and not that much more difficult once you have gained the skillset building the front end.

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PostPosted: August 26, 2013, 8:38 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON
The Subaru r160 (if you prefer Datsun, that the origin of the rear diff.) rear diff is a good choice. Lost of various gearing out there(from 3.10 to 4.44), lot of type of LSD available (viscous, suretrack) and they are cheap (about 150-250$, knukle ~40$ each, suspensions arm about 60$ for all). My old solo2 car, I had over 250whp and 300+lbs torque one of of those before the ring gear started to give up slowly, that's on a 3000lbs car. If you want a stronger diff (which I don't think you need), you can get the r180 out of the STI or a r200 or r220 from a Nissan 240sx or 300zx.

Brakes can be good too. The Nissan 300zx rear brake will bolt on it with a bracket. Brake pas a cheap too. All Nissan and Subaru 4 pod and 2 pod use the same brake pad.


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PostPosted: August 26, 2013, 11:10 am 
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I've had similar thoughts/urges, and have even gone as far as to look at picking up an A7 chassis. But, after looking at how basic one is, it would make more sense financially to fabricate one. I already have a 750cc Climax mated to a BMC A-series gearbox, plus a couple Spridget/Nash Met axles (44" track), but I'm short the front beam axle, wire wheels, suitable front hubs, money, time and space.

As for the De Dion set up, its very period and not that difficult to make up.


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PostPosted: August 26, 2013, 2:20 pm 
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thank you all for the reply`s :wink:

after thinking more about it and looking at pics all evening until my vision blurred (or was it the Bourbon ?!?)
i realized that allowing space for driveshaft/ liveaxle movement would end in odd proportions on something so short and low slung.

on top of that i do have to be very careful with un-suspended mass in a light little car like this,
so i agree that a narrowed r160 irs is probably the only way to make this work.

cant think of any other irs center that is as small as the r160 (and as readily available)
i could literally sit right on top of the long pinion housing...
with a low torque/high rpm bike engine i`m not worried about the small diameter ring gear
looking at the housing ...
Image
... makes me think that a couple pounds of unneeded casting tabs and flashing could be shaved off,
without compromising much structural strength

maybe a 5-link suspension instead of A-arms could give the rear a "classic" flair
5-link will need a lot of heim`s, but the advantage would be that there is no welding ... so the links could be (polished) aluminum tubing ,
what would go well with my OCARD :mrgreen:
(obsessive compulsive aluminum & rivet disorder :lol: )

found a couple more pics... this is a 2 seat Special :

Image
Image
Image

love the bare aluminum body (thats the look i want),
but to me the "fat belly" 2 seaters just do not look as sexy as a slender single seater

maybe with fat tires it would look better....
as i mentioned before this will only be a vintage "inspired" car;
i dont intend to use wire wheels and narrow bias tires

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PostPosted: August 26, 2013, 4:48 pm 
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I like that last car above wire wheels and all. But those single seaters are totally cool too.

Decisions, decisions, eh what? They're all easy to build now, since we're doing it in our heads. :D

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: August 26, 2013, 5:39 pm 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
I like that last car above wire wheels and all. But those single seaters are totally cool too.

Decisions, decisions, eh what? They're all easy to build now, since we're doing it in our heads. :D

Cheers,


oh yes .... decisions, decisions ... cant make up my mind on what direction to go :roll: :lol:

dont get me wrong, i do like the wire wheels too 8) ...
but i want this little thing to turn like a cat on carpet :twisted:
so i guess lightweight aluminum rims (probably satin black) and modern radial tires are a visual compromise i have to live with

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PostPosted: August 26, 2013, 11:43 pm 
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hmmmmm 8) ....

Image

Image

this two A7Special pics are giving me more bad ideas :roll:
maybe i do have to consider a slightly wider body with offset seating position
(but to the "correct side" so that it maches the bike engine output :P )
...and may take another look at the offset "Legends" racing rear end

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PostPosted: August 27, 2013, 12:43 am 
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Damn, that red one looks sharp. I wonder how hard it would be to shorten one side of a Spridget diff housing and lengthen the other side....


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PostPosted: August 27, 2013, 11:24 am 
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Yes, +1 on the red one. Wow, the driveline is really offset in that car. Wouldn't a short axle on one side have the torque steer problems of the early FWD cars?

I totally forgot about offset drivelines. Here is another example of an offset car I've actually seen. It's a Stanguellini Formula Junior from the 50's. There should be a lot of information out there on this car if you want to see how they did it.

Cheers,

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Stanguellini-Formula-Junior.jpg
Stanguellini-Formula-Junior.jpg [ 82.23 KiB | Viewed 9529 times ]

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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