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Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
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Author:  rx7locost [ September 23, 2018, 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
OK I’ll take a shot at it. Assuming that you are using the switch ass’y and wiper motor, and no other wiring from the Miata. The terminal orientation on the switch is connector D-03, shown in the lower RH corner of the 1st diagram.
Note that in the 1st diagram :
B= Black
L=Blue
I think you can figure out the rest of the colors. For example, Blu-Yel in the 2nd diagram is a Blue wire with Yellow stripe. It would be shown as L/Y in the 1st.

TURN SIGNAL FUNCTION
BLK-YEL Turn signal common, ( goes to pin on the 4-way switch in my wiring diagram)
GRN-RED Turn signal right, ( goes to pin R on the 4-way switch in my wiring diagram)
GRN-YEL Turn signal left, ( goes to pin L on the 4-way switch in my wiring diagram)
Note: I may have left and right reversed. Try one way.

LIGHT FUNCTION
I think both diagrams that you show may have the same error in internal wiring for Head and TNS relays. (TNS = Turn, Number plate and sidemarkers. A.k.a. parking lights and some other functions like dash lights etc.)

RED-BLU Is power to the High Beams used for the “Flash-to-pass” function only. Wire this to battery B+ thru a 30A fuse
RED-WHT Is High beam output directly to headlights (and dash indicator)
WHT-BLK Is Headlight power. Wire this to Headlight relay output *input to the relay is connected to RED-BLU wire
RED-BLK Is Low beam output direct to headlights
BLU-YEL controls headlight relay coil, energizing the headlights. Other end of coil is connected to RED-BLU
LT GRN controls TLS relay coil, energizing the headlights. Other end of coil is connected to Battery B+ (thru
BLK Chassis Ground

WIPER FUNCTION
This should work on your wiper motor. IF you are using the Lucas (MGB) 2- speed wiper system, then wiring is different It works on B- control, not B+, but can be made to function. If you need more info, I'd have to dig a bit more.

BLU Is B+ power to wiper system. Wire this to switched B+ (fused)
BLU-RED These 3 wires go to the wiper motor (assuming you are using the Miata Motor
BLU-WHT These 3 wires go to the wiper motor (assuming you are using the Miata Motor
BLU-PRG These 3 wires go to the wiper motor (assuming you are using the Miata Motor

WASHER MOTOR (if used ?)
BLU-ORG Wire this to + terminal on wiper motor, - terminal on wiper motor goes to GND
Author:  Mnot [ September 25, 2018, 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
I should have mentioned that i only have the headlight and wiper switches (wiper not used), i do not have the wiring harness. i simply unplugged them when i yanked the column from the j/y. i am using a bussmann fuse relay panel with 5 relays and 10 fuses. As i have it now, the fuse panel has the first 5 fuses feeding the 5 relays. i had planned the relays for 1. headlight, 2. High beam, 3. rad fan, 4. Horn, 5. not sure yet.

I am a little confused because you list 3 power sources to the headlight (Red-wht, wht-Blk, red-blk) but i only have 2 wires (high and low) plus the ground. should it be the output from the relay coils only going to the light?

Thank you
-gavin
Author:  rx7locost [ September 25, 2018, 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
Gavin, if you intend on rewiring the "system" to something other than Miata OEM paths, then I might be able to help you on that too.

So far, I have followed the Miata scheme where current for the headlights travels thru the switch to the headlights.

To clarify, there are only 2 wires "from" the switch "to" the headlights; the Red/Wht and Red/Blk for high beams and low beams respectively. The source for these are: the Red/Blu and the Wht/Blk. These 2 provide headlight current "to" the switch. Only the Wht/Blk wire needs to be in place for regular high/low headlight operation. If you want the "flash to pass" function, then the Red/Blue wire need to be connected to the switch.

I understand that you don't have the wiring harness. You will have to do the mental exercise of converting wire colors to the location of the respective terminals on the switch itself. A representation of the connector to the switch is shown below. IIRC, this is looking at the open-end of the connector, not the wire side. If so, then you will have to mirror image it to see how it would be when looking at the switch. You should confirm that. It should be referenced somewhere in the wiring diagram from Mazda. There is a section as to how to interpret the connectors somewhere.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on the light power dedscription earlier. If you want to do something more toward your 5 relays available, I'd suggest the following ( assuming you have access to all relay terminals. ):


1) Headlights on/off
2) Headlights high/low
3) TLS
4) Horn
5) Fan

Have you got a reference to the fuse/relay block?

These are my "simplified" OEM diagrams.
Author:  rx7locost [ September 25, 2018, 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
Gavin, if you are going with your fuse panel and a 5-relay setup, you have only 3 relays available for lighting control. The other 2 are for fan and horn (not shown). This circuit will require the use of 3 additional diodes. Simple 1n4002, 1n4003, or 1n4004 diodes can be used. Below is an untested schematic on how I would test the circuit. Be very careful in wiring this. I have reversed some of the current flow in the switch in order to not use 4 relays. This should work, I think. Test carefully.

I don't know if this can be implemented in your chosen fuse/relay box. I can't find any wiring diagrams. I assume that every fuse and relay terminal is not connected to anything else. Therefore, wiring is left up to the individual. This may not be the case.

1) One relay activates the headlights which are normally on low beams.
2) High/Low beams are selected thru the 2nd relay.
3) Flash to pass activates both relays to activate high beams as in the OEM configuration.
4) Flash to pass works with headlights on or off. Just not with high beams on. Use only the wires shown that I have diagramed.
5) All lighting works without ignition switched on, just as in OEM diagram.


MV8, please check my work.
Author:  Mnot [ September 25, 2018, 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
Wow Chuck, you just made the Christmas list!

My general understanding is that headlights should go through a relay and the switch should be low amperage to signal the relay to supply the power to the headlight. The Miata sends all of the power through the switch to the lights which often causes problems (smoking wires in dash). I am hoping that your illustration is the safer configuration but I will have to stare at if for a while before I can pretend to understand it.

I will get my kids to help me with the wire colors since I am partially color blind :roll:
Author:  Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F [ September 26, 2018, 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
Chuck, I don't see how you will have a usable high beam except for flash to pass.

Here is another way using mostly the original wiring but only one relay. TNS relay is eliminated and polarity through the combo switch for parking lamps is reversed in order to do that. Just food for thought.
Author:  rx7locost [ September 26, 2018, 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
MV8 Thanks for looking it over. This last option (with diodes) is to meet mnot's not wanting the headlight current from running thru the multi-function switch.

The terminal at wire W/B is externally connected to the terminal at wire L/Y. Internally, for high beams on, R/W is connected to W/B. W/B is internally connected to gnd for lights to be on.


So L/Y to gnd activates the Lights on/off relay. With high beams on, R/W is connected internally to W/B. With W/B tied externally to L/Y, the High/Low relay is also activated allowing the high beams on. If the switch is in low beams, then R/W to W/B is open, leaving the high/low relay in the n/c position, turning on the low beams.


If the light switch is in the off position, none of this occurs leaving the lights off,

If the flash to pass is activated either with the lights off, or with the lights on/low beams on, then the high beams are flashed.


------

In your schematic, I have a comment and another comment.
1) In all situations the headlight current passes thru the multifunction switch .
2) I like the way you reversed the blk to B+ and reconfigured the relays to use LED lights for parking and other functions to eliminate one relay. I assume that dash lights and "?" would also be part of that load. Some of those may be incandescent?


mnot would have to be very careful that he is selecting the correct BLK terminal to reassign to B+ as there are two BLK wire terminals.
Author:  Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F [ September 27, 2018, 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
I see it now. The relays he selects may have internal diodes for the collapsing field voltage spike. Looks like the way to go but for the sake of discussion, I will continue. Had to go back and read since I have not been following and went straight to the schematic when I saw you asked me to look.

The 5 amp fuse assumes all leds and incandescent instruments. If using the oem cluster and wiring off the park function, the load is 4x3.8watts/14vdc=1 amp, leaving roughly 4 amps for four led lamps. I buy bags of 194 replacement leds and use them for everything. I use radial and spot arrangement leds depending on the cluster design for best lighting and clearance. I don’t know what instrumentation he is using.

The other black wire is not connected, since he is not using the wiper function. If they were connected internally, there should be only one black wire. A continuity check would confirm but there is no need.

Mnot, regarding the smoking wiring comment, I’ve had many na miatas and never had an issue with the oem wiring config. However, it is not uncommon for people to install higher output lamps that draw more current then blame the car mfg. Head light bulbs with more watts equal more amps for a given voltage x 2. If the oem system doesn’t last 200,000 miles of normal use then there is or was a maintenance issue or mod at some point that led to the failure.

There are plenty of na miatas or other mazdas in junkyards that you can source the switch connectors from. Look for vehicles that use the same switch. If there are none in your area, find a miata parts seller on ebay and ask to buy the connectors with as much wire as practical for splicing.
Author:  rx7locost [ September 27, 2018, 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I see it now. The relays he selects may have internal diodes for the collapsing field voltage spike. Looks like the way to go but for the sake of discussion, I will continue. Had to go back and read since I have not been following and went straight to the schematic when I saw you asked me to look.

Thanks for the confirmation

The 5 amp fuse assumes all leds and incandescent instruments. If using the oem cluster and wiring off the park function, the load is 4x3.8watts/14vdc=1 amp, leaving roughly 4 amps for four led lamps. I buy bags of 194 replacement leds and use them for everything. I use radial and spot arrangement leds depending on the cluster design for best lighting and clearance. I don’t know what instrumentation he is using.

Agreed that it is no t a problem

The other black wire is not connected, since he is not using the wiper function. If they were connected internally, there should be only one black wire. A continuity check would confirm but there is no need.

I'm not sure about the "not using the wiper function". Wiper or no wiper, continuity test would be good to do for peace of mind in case of future needs.

Mnot, regarding the smoking wiring comment, I’ve had many na miatas and never had an issue with the oem wiring config. However, it is not uncommon for people to install higher output lamps that draw more current then blame the car mfg. Head light bulbs with more watts equal more amps for a given voltage x 2. If the oem system doesn’t last 200,000 miles of normal use then there is or was a maintenance issue or mod at some point that led to the failure.


I've never had problems with OEM headlight wiring either, provided staying within OEM designed power loads. Many add relays to their Brit cars just because "Lucas", age, and DPO's wiring deficiencies

There are plenty of na miatas or other mazdas in junkyards that you can source the switch connectors from. Look for vehicles that use the same switch. If there are none in your area, find a miata parts seller on ebay and ask to buy the connectors with as much wire as practical for splicing.

Good idea



Thanks!
Author:  Mnot [ September 28, 2018, 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 9 Pin Hazard Switch
To add info to for my setup, I am using VDO Cockpit series gauges which I think use incandescent lights. ALL other lights are LED except low & high beams.
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