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PostPosted: March 24, 2021, 7:51 pm 
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Joined: November 26, 2012, 2:29 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Rome, GA
I've been playing with my suspension a bit and wanted to get some opinions. The car will be somewhere near the size of a 442 and will be have an SR20DET in it for the engine. I'm planning on this being setup like a sports car that you could do reasonably well at a track while also being able to drive it on short road trips.

it currently is set up with mustang II drop spindles in the front and thunderbird IRS spindles in the rear. I've thought about maybe see if Corvette C5 spindles up front would work a little better.

Right now I'm a little concerned about my front KPI and Scrub radius mostly but if anything else catches anyone's eye please let me know. Should I be looking at KPI and scrub in the rear at all btw? I've only ever noticed people talking about them when talking of the steering.

Silvia 7 Suspension Geometry

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PostPosted: March 25, 2021, 6:38 am 
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Don’t worry about rear kpi and scrub.

Add your camber curves and both x and y rc locations to the chart out to 4 degrees roll. Try to limit roll to 4 deg; preferably with a swaybar and softer spring rates over heavy springs and no bar.

The scrub is 2.214” with 1.77 backspacing. The practical thing to do is to use front wheels with more back spacing. Four inches would be about right but then you’d need to reconsider track, longer arms, etc. You can get up to 5 inch back space in an 8 inch rim. I will leave it as-is for this tweak. If you really want to use these rims with these spindles, consider adding power steering or a high ratio/leverage “slow” rack and steering damper.

Your RC swings 4.64 inches side to side, 2.48-2.56” vertically:
Silvia 7 chart mods


Tweak for RC to swing max 0.40” side to side, 2.28-2.36” vertical with similar camber curve. You can tweak it further:

Silvia 7 tweaked

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: March 25, 2021, 11:36 am 
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Joined: November 26, 2012, 2:29 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Rome, GA
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Don’t worry about rear kpi and scrub.

Add your camber curves and both x and y rc locations to the chart out to 4 degrees roll. Try to limit roll to 4 deg; preferably with a swaybar and softer spring rates over heavy springs and no bar.

The scrub is 2.214” with 1.77 backspacing. The practical thing to do is to use front wheels with more back spacing. Four inches would be about right but then you’d need to reconsider track, longer arms, etc. You can get up to 5 inch back space in an 8 inch rim. I will leave it as-is for this tweak. If you really want to use these rims with these spindles, consider adding power steering or a high ratio/leverage “slow” rack and steering damper.


Thanks for the suggestions. The roll amount is one thing I haven't heard anyone talking about on here so that makes a lot of sense. I was planning on fitting softer springs and taking up the roll with swaybars as well after I get the car rolling and testing it out at a local autoX.

I will have a power steering pump on the car but depending on how heavy the steering will feel I would for sure be interested in switching to different offset wheels since the wheels I was planning on using have been discontinued. I'm also not set on the Mustang II front spindles considering all the packaging issues I've had. Something with more inboard balljoints (closer to wheel center I mean) I feel would work better but I'm unsure of what would work as far ass off the shelf spindles.

I'm looking at this thread and considering my tire size would you say I'd be alright with somewhere around 5mm-10mm of scrub radius?

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PostPosted: March 25, 2021, 12:22 pm 
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You could use mustang spindles and fab brackets that place the UBJ as needed. I think 80s crown vic spindles are a good locost alternative to pinto/M2 for a powerful car but I don’t know the exact geometry. Another option is to chose a bolt-on bearing hub with the right bc and fab the upright.

A small amount of scrub is not a big concern. Most anybody who has ever swapped rims on their car/truck has experienced that. Much of this is splitting hairs and there will be differences/errors when trying to duplicate these positions on an actual car as well as real world dynamics. Whether it is calculated, string computed, or eyeballed, I don’t know any builder who has expressed disappointment in the handling department. It’s all good and even if it wasn’t, it can be fixed later.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: March 25, 2021, 2:46 pm 
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Joined: November 26, 2012, 2:29 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Rome, GA
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
You could use mustang spindles and fab brackets that place the UBJ as needed. I think 80s crown vic spindles are a good locost alternative to pinto/M2 for a powerful car but I don’t know the exact geometry. Another option is to chose a bolt-on bearing hub with the right bc and fab the upright.

A small amount of scrub is not a big concern. Most anybody who has ever swapped rims on their car/truck has experienced that. Much of this is splitting hairs and there will be differences/errors when trying to duplicate these positions on an actual car as well as real world dynamics. Whether it is calculated, string computed, or eyeballed, I don’t know any builder who has expressed disappointment in the handling department. It’s all good and even if it wasn’t, it can be fixed later.


I've really thought about using SN95 or new edge mustang spindles and an adapter bracket, since I'll be using new edge rear calipers. It'd be nice to have all the same brakes front and rear. I think I'll take a hard look at those 2 generations of mustang spindles before deciding on fabbed ones.

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PostPosted: March 25, 2021, 2:56 pm 
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Make sense to me. Use what is readily available and common. I think Lonnie is using the same thing?

Just for the heck of it,

Again, baseline:
+/- 4 deg roll = RC 4.64” side to side, 2.48-2.56” (0.08”total) vertically, 4 deg roll = 0.56 deg pos cam at outside wheel.

Newer tweak (hi rc compromise):
+/- 4 deg roll = RC 0.08” side to side, 3.23-3.35” (0.18”total, 0.89” higher) vertically, 4 deg roll = 0.35 deg pos cam at outside wheel.

Silvia 7 high RC

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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