Midlana build

[Nitro]

Hello, new to the forum,
heres a little history, me and a friend are gonna build a Midlana, we plan on building the chassis, suspensions components and possibly body panels and then selling it for alittle profit to someone who does not have the knowledge/experience/time to build their own, so here is my first question,
was looking through the book by Kurt Bilinski, was trying to decide what engine/trans combo would be a good choice to build it too, thought about the K or B series Hondas since it would be fairly cheaper and aftermarket is fairly abundant, but me and my friend have access to new Fiesta STs and Focus STs, so 1.5L/1.6L ecoboost engines respectively, I would like to build the car too that but my question is do you think somebody who is interested in buying the vehicle just built for the ecoboost powertrain but not included would prefer that or the Honda since the ecoboost platform would be more complicated and more expensive,
any thoughts are appreciated
Thanks,
Nick

[anavrinIV]

the fiest st has a 1.6L and the focus has a 2.0L, not the 1.5/1.6 you mentioned.

That aside I think building it for either of those engines would be a terrible idea and here's why:

Those engines are not only new but they're very complicated. DI is no joke and there are no aftermarket ECUs to run them. I should know, I've spent 2.5 years very deeply immersed in the Mazdaspeed world of the 2.3L DISI turbo and plan to build my own middy with the engine and trans out of my car.

to run an ecoboost engine you'll most likely need an entire fiesta or focus st donor, and since they're quite new cars they will be expensive. Also because of the insane amount of electronics in them you're looking at a nightmare of wiring to deal with as well as figuring out a way to decouple the ECU and engine from the rest of the car which is much harder than it sounds.

IMO, build to a b18 or a k20. Both engines are prevalent, strong, well known, relatively cheap, have large aftermarket support, and have hondatech to back them if something goes wrong. Neither is as powerful as the 2.0L ecoboost but I'm willing to bet turboing a b18 or k20 is easier and cheaper than trying to drop in an ecoboost.

If you want to get really creative there is a guy here putting a 2.4L turbo from an SRT4 in a midlana in the build section. That's a little powerhouse for this type of car. Another suggestion would be a 4g63 either n/a or turbo out of a 1g/2g eclipse/talon, but the iron blocks aren't known for their lightness. There's also a pretty good guide at the top of this page for duratec/mzr engines (non-turbo) and one for zetecs, both of which are good options.

I would still go with a b18 or k20 though. They're just too easy to work with. The only reason I plan to use my own DISI is that I already have it and I love that little booger, no matter how hard it can be to work with at times.

[Nitro]

that's what I was thinking, I would love to do an ecoboost but figured it is to soon with their arrival to mess with them, me and my friend were most likely looking at using the k20 if we can find it or possibly a k24, even just a scrapped engine trans for mockup purposes

[carguy123]

At some time in the near future, if not already, the ecoboost 3 & 4 cylinder engines are supposed to be available as crate engine systems directly from Ford with a wiring harness that works in race cars.

They are wanting to get those engines in several race series and are headed that way.

But no, it won't be Locost.

I can't wait for the day you can buy the ecu/harness from Ford and pick up an engine from the wrecking yard.

[Nitro]

yes I cant wait to be able to get an ecoboost setup from the scrap yard,
me and my friend are still in the planning portion, gonna work on where to build it and the frame table soon to get tubing ordered and begin building, im sure we will have m any questions to get answered on here

[anavrinIV]

why no consideration of the MZR disi? Same engine configuration, more power stock, more toqrue, bulletproof stock transmission from the speed3. If someone is willing to put in the money there are cars hitting 800hp with supplemental fueling and gigantic turbos.

[Nitro]

biggest thing is availability and the fact me and my friend are building this for a couple reasons like experience, and the fun of building something from scratch, we are both fabricators by profession, hes been in the field awhile and I just got out wyotech and got a job a bit ago, we are building the chassis, suspension and possibly body then sellin the vehicle as that to make some money for different things like my wifes schooling and to pay off his house and of course build another with slight differences,
we aren't makin a get rich quick scheme either so please don't get that opinion, our main goal is like I said above and someone gets a car already made minus hard parts for people without a lot of time or experience

[anavrinIV]

I was only curious about the engine, you seem to really want to use the ecoboost. I still say build around the k20, it's the most logical option. If I were building from scratch I would go that route as well but as it is I already have a running, driving complete donor.

I look forward to your build, I like the midlana. If I were building a "guided" chassis it would likely be that one.

[Nitro]

the main reason I would like to use an ecoboost is we work in a shop that has access to them so it would basically be free to use one for mockup and spec purposes but somebody would not want to buy the chassis and then have to shell out a lot of money for an ecoboost, we will probably go with the k20 or b18 since they are very common and can be picked up cheap and made running cheap also

[reddog]

the main reason I would like to use an ecoboost is we work in a shop that has access to them so it would basically be free to use one for mockup and spec purposes but somebody would not want to buy the chassis and then have to shell out a lot of money for an ecoboost, we will probably go with the k20 or b18 since they are very common and can be picked up cheap and made running cheap also

I don't know if everyone has already seen these or even if posted:
Yeah, $10K for the package kind of takes it out of Locost range,
but they are out and Ford wants them racing.

Ecoboost crate eng.
https://fordperformanceracingparts.com/ ... ield=22999
controls package for
http://fordperformanceracingparts.com/p ... ield=22998

[Warren Nethercote]

Nitro,

Have you and your friend explored the business model carefully? Six or seven years ago I bought my COLD frame, with some suspension bits, a nose, a cowl, and fenders for (as I recall) $4400 Canadian. Apply inflation to that if you like, but the bottom line is that COLD is no longer in business. Fortunately for Chris, COLD was a 'hobby farm' of sorts, so he kept going as long as he didn't lose money. But in the end, COLD was not viable.

More recently, we had a member building one of the few attractive middy exo-cars, as part of a business, but in the end he gave it up because no-one was prepared to buy at the price he had to charge in order to buy groceries (something like $28K US for an engineless roller I recall). He went back to fixing and upgrading Porsches and Bimmers, whose owners were prepared to pay market charge-out rates without blinking.

What would your Midlana kit sell at if your 'charged' 40 bucks an hour (that's cheap, with overheads) plus materials. Would people buy? People do buy Cats, Birkins and Westfield kits at outrageous prices, but will they pay the same thing for an unknown brand?

It sounds like a good idea, particularly if you provide suspension bits (buying a frame and adapting suspension to it is a fool's errand: ask me how I know), but you and your friend need to be sure that the market is there - the number of kits sold suggests otherwise. Sure there are lots of Cobras around for the American iron types, but the market for elegant, lightweight sports cars appears to be a limited one.