Page 1 of 1

Street Legal?

Posted: August 19, 2005, 11:09 pm
by DMCunningham
I am looking into building an electric Locost from scratch and I started to wonder what has to be done to make it street legal.

What I mean by this, is that in the UK there is SVA which certifies a car as "street legal." What does one have to do to get their scratch built (or even kit built) car recognized as "street legal?"

I have tried to find my answer by googling, and I have only found bits and pieces. :?

So far I have found that (for the States) each state has their own requirements of what a street legal vehicle should have (an some states are more detailed than states). So assuming that you are able to find the requirements for your state, what do you have to do to register it, get a title for it, and everything else that you need to drive your Locost legally on the road?

Thank you in advance.

Posted: August 20, 2005, 3:12 pm
by chetcpo
I called my DMV just now and they said I would need to come down and pick up an "Assembled Vehicle Packet" which they said contains all of the forms I would need to have completed to begin the process. After all of the forms are completed I would need to have it inspected at a Dept of Highways facility by a law enforcement officer.

In addition to completing the forms I would need to have all of the reciepts for my materials and "MSO" forms for the engine and transmission. I asked what the heck an MSO form was and she stated it was a "Manufacturer's statement of origin form." When pressed for further information she said she didn't know what that was or how I might obtain it. She suggested I call the inspection facility and talk to them for further details.

Sounds like a fairly unpleasant task all in all, but worth it I'm sure.

I did find this form from Michigan by google-ing "assembled vehicle", I guess it's important to know the proper DMV terminology. :) http://www.michigan.gov/documents/BFS-7 ... 3315_7.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-12 ... --,00.html

I also found this from Ohio:
http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/Salvage_Veh_Inspections.html

And from Nebraska:
http://www.dmv.state.ne.us/dvr/mvtitles/assem_kit.html

I wonder how difficult and costly it would be to insure a "Assembled Vehicle." :?

Posted: August 20, 2005, 3:43 pm
by the JoKeR
The title from the donor vehicle(s) will probably cover your MSO for the engine/trans.

Insurance could be the fun part. The Hummer-style trucks I've been building can often be titled as a Suburban or pickup, as they use the original driveline, frame, and engine. This can often keep the insurance low. My State Farm agent said he'd insure it as the donor vehicle, but would have to raise the premium a bit because the value would be higher than a typical older Suburban. I guess I'll have to contact him again to see if I'm going to have to bend & grab 'em for a Locost! :shock:

She didn't know what that was.

Posted: August 20, 2005, 4:10 pm
by DMCunningham
chetcpo wrote: . . . In addition to completing the forms I would need to have all of the reciepts for my materials and "MSO" forms for the engine and transmission. I asked what the heck an MSO form was and she stated it was a "Manufacturer's statement of origin form." When pressed for further information she said she didn't know what that was or how I might obtain it. She suggested I call the inspection facility and talk to them for further details.


:lol: Ha! I'm glad that I'm not the only one that gets only bits and pieces. :lol:

When I was reading your post, I had asked to myself, "what the heck is a MSO form." I'm glad to know that even the DMV doesn't have a clue. :roll:

I used to have the Texas requirements for assembled vehicle, and of course there is nothing that explains what to do after you set your vehicle up to meet those requirements. I, at one time, found Ohio's list, which looks a lot like Texas's but much more relaxed on the exact placement of certain things --- as least that is what the document that I had stated. I'm sure, of course, that there are more strict details that need to be met somewhere.

If I can dig either one of them up, I'll do my best to format them and post them here.

Thanks for making this section of the forums.

Some tips from the dune buggy world.

Posted: August 20, 2005, 6:33 pm
by DMCunningham
The site below deals with dune buggies, however there is a good amount of information that Locost builders may want to take a look at.

http://www.dune-buggy.com/techtips/street_legal.htm

Re: Some tips from the dune buggy world.

Posted: August 20, 2005, 6:53 pm
by chetcpo
DMCunningham wrote:The site below deals with dune buggies, however there is a good amount of information that Locost builders may want to take a look at.

http://www.dune-buggy.com/techtips/street_legal.htm


Wow, great link! I'll be busy reading for the next few hours. :D

Re: Some tips from the dune buggy world.

Posted: August 20, 2005, 6:59 pm
by DMCunningham
chetcpo wrote:Wow, great link! I'll be busy reading for the next few hours. :D


You are welcome.

Be sure to check out the link that they recommended:

http://www.dune-buggy.com/buggylinks/Street_Legal/

It has info for a lot of states and their "laws." That is if you can understand what some of these states are talking about.

Posted: February 20, 2006, 12:47 pm
by dhempy
I would recommend establishing a relationship with the authorities as early as possible. Go down to your county DMV (or equivalent) with The Book and snapshots of whatever gear you've accumulated and tell the inspector what you're up to. Get to know him/her/them on a first-hand basis. If he finds your project interesting (why wouldn't he?), invite him over for a look-see.

The purpose of this isn't just to get all pal-like with The Man (although that doesn't hurt). The first reason for this is to get information from him *before* you put hundreds of hours into something in a way that doesn't fit with his program.

The second reason is to give him an opportunity to learn from you. Let's face it...this guy reads 2,000 VIN's and speedo's a year. Maybe listens to as many horns honk and admires 4,000 turn signals blinking. He takes a check, punches a computer, and signs form ST-4032-b-sub-j9/revised:9.505/canary in quadruplicate. Has he *ever* processed a homebuilt car? If so, does he do more than 2 or 3 a year? Maybe...but probably not.

So...your job is to present yourself as an intelligent, motivated builder-citizen. Make it clear that you are there to learn what you need to do to register the car you are going to build...not *if* you can register it, but *how* you are going to do it.

Do as much research as you can before your first contact. Don't pass yourself off as a know-it-all or arrogant, but know your stuff. If you run into an issue that you both don't know the answer to, admit your ignorance and offer to do some research and then go do it. Follow up with him. *Never* bluff your knowledge. Treat The Man as your partner, and make it clear that you are going to work *with* him, and that you expect him to do the same with you. Let him know you appreciate the time he spends with you. Look him in the eye when you shake his hand at the start and end of your visit.

If you have some literature on your vehicle, offer to give him copies for his interest. If he seems interested in what you're doing, loan him The Book for a week, and follow up and listen to his opinions.

If you run into a real arse that has "I hate kit cars" tattooed on his forehead, find someone else. Call before going downtown and see who's working that day. Make sure you have a reason to talk with Joe instead of Lucifer, such as those pictures you promised to bring him the other day.

The more opportunity you have to learn from him, educate him, and involve him in your project, the greater the expectation that by the time the paperwork hits the desk, all issues will already be understood and resolved.


I base these assertions my experiences in my other [Fatherless Child] sport. I fly ultralight airplanes for fun and anti-profit. I've meet a variety of aviation professionals, bureaucrats, and experts who have an extremely thin understanding of my tiny little niche of the aviation industry.

I've flown 200 miles to be told that I can't buy gas at a "real" airport because I don't have a "real" airplane or a "real" license. I could have gotten belligerent, yelled about regulations, begged, skulked off, landed at the truck stop, or all kinds of other unsavory things. Instead, I scratched my head and said, "Gosh, I'm sorry...my flight briefer didn't mention any NOTAM's about ultralight restrictions here Westfield when I filed my flight plan this morning in Kentucky."

By letting him know that I know my stuff (using his lingo, referencing the authorities and regulations) and I'm not some kite kiddie (Kentucky was a two hour drive from there) he quickly decided that he might as well sell me my five gallons of gas and let me move along so he could go back to his bread and butter...selling 200 gallons of jet fuel per pop. We both got what we wanted, and neither of us left with any incentive to give the other any grief. I can't wait to return there! :wink:


-dave


ps. This is my first post to LocostUSA. I've read The Book several times, have been reading the net's wisdom for a month, and committed to build a garage this spring. (And yes, I've already had a chat with a clerk and inspector at the county clerk!) I'd say I'm 75% likely to start a build...we'll see. I sure like what I'm seeing and see it as a great way to learn a raft of new skills. Thanks for all the posts!

Posted: February 20, 2006, 3:07 pm
by Pete Gossett
I'm still in the planning/buying stage myself, but one thing referenced in the Book, which I haven't been able to find in the USA, is the reference to light/signal height/spacing/etc.

I would think those details are covered under the US DOT regulations(vs. the State reg's), but I didn't have much luck w/google...

Posted: February 20, 2006, 5:39 pm
by the JoKeR
Makes you wonder if the DMV will know it! It wouldn't surprise me much if they check for safety equipment, lights, etc and don't actually measure headlight height, turnsignal height, etc.

Posted: February 20, 2006, 5:49 pm
by mr.peabody.d
dhempy Great post and good advice...welcome aboard.

Posted: February 20, 2006, 6:25 pm
by dhempy
the JoKeR wrote:Makes you wonder if the DMV will know it! It wouldn't surprise me much if they check for safety equipment, lights, etc and don't actually measure headlight height, turnsignal height, etc.


When I was talking to the inspector, I asked if there were certain things they would be inspecting for. He rattled a few off the top of his head...headlights, horn, turn signals, bumpers...but it didn't sound like there was a specific list that would be followed.

I inquired deeper about the bumpers, asking if they needed to meet a certain spec. He said no.

"So as long as we can point to it and say it looks like a bumper, it's okay?"

"Well....you can't just stick a pipe out there and say it's a bumper." But further inquiry got no more details, so I didn't push the point. It was clear I was asking more than he knew, so I didn't want to back him into a corner.

-dave